Who knew...?

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Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo

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seagull101
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Re: Who knew...?

Post by seagull101 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:47 pm

Take a look at the updated listing, he has added some info in the description, interesting if its true but hard to believe.

My thinking is that it is the seal that goes at the top of the pinion in the gearbox on later models, maybe the way he states he found it is the way seagull kept such seals!?????

Jacob

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John@sos
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Re: Who knew...?

Post by John@sos » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:58 am

Hello all.

The guy is all bull!

The seal was made specifially for one model and I still have these seals in stock here. do not sell many!

As I cleared the factory in 1996, his cock and bull story about that is shot.

The seal can be pushed into the casing tube, but with people like this I could also tell you where I would like to push it.!!

Do beware people like this. He is well known.

John
SOS

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Charles uk
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Re: Who knew...?

Post by Charles uk » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:55 am

I was going to test out this oil seal, but as the drive shaft modification recommended would I believe compromise the strength of it, I decided not to risk destroying a £30 ish component.

The only place that I can think of, where Seagull might have used this size oil seal, is the very late model 3.1 : 1 FNR sealed lower unit that had a 9/16" prop shaft, & I've only seen 1 of those.

So if your looking for a 9/16" x 1.1/8" x 1/4" that's at least 24 years old, this could be just what your looking for & only 2.5 times the price of a new one!

Perhaps I've misunderstood the principle of how a centrifugal water pump impeller works, but has anyone every seen water coming out of the drive shaft tube vent holes when in use?
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

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seagull101
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Re: Who knew...?

Post by seagull101 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:46 am

Charles uk wrote:
but has anyone every seen water coming out of the drive shaft tube vent holes when in use?
No sir

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Rob Ripley
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Re: Who knew...?

Post by Rob Ripley » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:01 pm

Charles wrote .... "but has anyone every seen water coming out of the drive shaft tube vent holes when in use?"

Yes, I have.
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Charles uk
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Re: Who knew...?

Post by Charles uk » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:22 pm

Show us a picture when it's not in the test tank, please Rob.

The only time I've heard of that happening is on an SD water pump housing, with the pressure relief hole blocked up & a missing cotton reel bush.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

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Oyster 49
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Re: Who knew...?

Post by Oyster 49 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:59 pm

Isn’t the cotton reel SD only?

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seagull101
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Re: Who knew...?

Post by seagull101 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:10 pm

And Marston

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Rob Ripley
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Re: Who knew...?

Post by Rob Ripley » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:45 am

"...The only time I've heard of that happening is on an SD water pump housing, with the pressure relief hole blocked up & a missing cotton reel bush."

Yes, thats what happened, Charles.
I put a motor together from donated parts not noticing this 'repair' to the pump housing.
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Charles uk
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Re: Who knew...?

Post by Charles uk » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:12 am

Your cotton reel bush must be very tired, as a lot of water is going past it.

That also illustrates very clearly the purpose of that hole!

Thanks.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Grumpy
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Re: Who knew...?

Post by Grumpy » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:23 am

On thurs a friend turned up from the Waikato with a good cond ls forty, ls23905, (1954-!955)lots of minor problems but we sorted it out in a couple of hours with my spare parts and going great guns in the tank except for water passing thru good but also coming out top hole in drive shaft .
Also this model has the drive shaft clamped up top to a spline instead of being bolted .
water has hosing out there too.Next day we separated the bottom pump housing to find toatally clean waterways so , but for what ever reason the actual drive shaft with correct aluminium impellor, did not fit up near enough to the mouth of the shaft thus thw water could go both ways.Out the correct way and up the shaft.
Unable to figure it out correctly , tried removing housing "joining washer", cant remember what its called but it made no difference.
so a suitable washer was placed on the drive shaft holder on the gearbox end to raise the impellor up to be as near as possible to the exhaust tube.
It worked .
Unable to find any remedies in the problems solved on line so wondering if it is a common problem elsewhere.
Thinking about it now the gull had obviously been opened some time before so was something left out,
? was another fractionally smaller drive shaft put in?
Was I , we, just dead lucky.?

My friend went away back to the mighty Waikato with strict instructions to use correct fuel mixture of 10-1, no less, and to check and refill the gearbox after every use and to look after this little ls machine.

Gannet
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Re: Who knew...?

Post by Gannet » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:30 pm

I do not think that there is any problem. Water coming out of the two holes in the drive shaft tube as well as coming put of the cyclinder block outlet is quite normal.
As you have observed there is no specific arrangement to prevent water from the impeller going up the drive shaft tube. However this will be from the centre area of the impeller and thus will be at a lower pressure compared to the water at the tip of the impeller, which is directed up to the cylinder block.
As long as there is cooling flow coming out of the block outlet, all is well.
I hope your friend will continue to use and enjoy his LS.
It would be great if he or indeed you could post a photo of his LS, so that it adds to the records of the surviving Early Series Forty Seagulls.

Jeremy

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Charles uk
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Re: Who knew...?

Post by Charles uk » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:20 pm

Grumpy try removing the water delivery tube & checking that it has no obstructions down the hole, with a length of fencing wire, it's not unheard of for a rust flake from the cylinder wall to drop down the tube & get stuck, as the water drains out of the cylinder after use.

I've only worked on a couple of these more than 10 years ago, but I think you can get access to the bottom of the tube by removing the lower unit as you did before.
Failing that you'll have to get Jeremy/Gannet to talk you through it He's worked on loads of these.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Grumpy
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Re: Who knew...?

Post by Grumpy » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:48 pm

Thank you both . There never appeared to be any blockage of water going thru the correct channels even at he beginning .
But the amount of water coming out the small holes of the tube did appear excessive ,spraying anyone near the gull and with water coming out of the spline joint at a great rate also things had to be askew. Nothing like any of my other 11 gulls or my 3 other 40's.The copper tube was "blown" thru and appeared aok.
The gap between the impellor and the tube did appear to be manifestly excessive which was why we added the washer .
Perhaps as an afterthought we may have had some impediment up top stopping the drive shaft to go on fully.
If so what . I was wondering if I should have tried to drive it up a fraction with some careful brute force.

then when I fully realised the possible importance of this gull my friend was off and gone not prepared to delay.
Will get back to him and take photos and details as required, if he obliges.
It was going seeminglg perfect after at all speeds.


















the distac

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Charles uk
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Re: Who knew...?

Post by Charles uk » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:08 pm

You can get a lot of air through a very small hole, I've had one almost completely blocked with salt/rust concretion in the top of the brass fitting at the top of the water delivery tube.

I don't know how many Seagulls I've worked on, but I've only ever seen water coming out of the holes once before & that was the SD earlier in this thread & yours is the first instance I recall other than then, I'm sure we would have heard mention if it was a "normal" situation.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

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