What went wrong?

[seagull101]

Painted it last month then a week after i put the transfer on.
Lacquered it today, went in for dinner, came back out then...

AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

[Liam2k3]

Shame. Hate it when painting goes wrong.
I only use 2k paints now. Got fed up with stuff not being compatable.

[Keith.P]

Time, you need to leave the paint much longer to dry, completely dry.
The lacquer will react to paint if it's not completely dry, let the paint dry for a week or two, before you use the decal's and before you apply the lacquer, spray the lacquer very thinly and very slowly build it up.
You really need to take your time, we all make mistakes and want to rush things just to get the job finished.

[Keith.P]

Sorry I didn't read, you painted it last month.
Either paint was not comparable with the lacquer, or you have just put to much lacquer on in one go.
It's happened to me in the past.

[Charles uk]

Fuel tank by Salvador Dali, could be valuable!

[headdownarseup]

oopps!

Looks like you've applied too much lacquer too quickly Jacob.
With most types of lacquer you need to apply it little and often. Usually there's a time window (about 1 hour with many of them) before things start to go wrong like this.The instructions on the can will normally tell you how long you've got before this kind of thing happens
Some lacquers don't like being given a second coat even a week later. Most times you've got just one shot at this to get it right.

I normally leave the paint to fully dry off for about 1 month before applying a decal. I leave it in the airing cupboard packed into a soft pillow case to make absolutely sure it's baked hard enough. Once the decal is applied i give it another week in the airing cupboard to dry again, and any air bubbles i prick out with a pin after 1 week before i think about the clear coat.
Next the lacquer coat/s. A little tip i picked up was to gently warm up the lacquer tin/can in some warm/hot water and keeping shaking the can REALLY WELL to make sure its well mixed and agitated, then plenty of thin coats applied over 30 mins.or so. Keep the lacquer and the work piece warm all the time, and if you can warm up the workshop where you're spraying this will help as well. Don't blow on it, don't touch it, don't do anything except keep your environment and the paint warm especially in cooler weather. Whenever i'm painting i suspend my tanks from a length of stiff wire from the shed roof which gives me plenty of room from all sides to make sure all surfaces are covered, and perhaps a good rule to remember is not to get too close to the work piece when spraying. Leave a distance of about 30cm to allow the paint to come out of the nozzle in a fan rather than building up too much in one location which could end up with runs, or maybe even end up reacting with the under layers of black paint.

So near and yet so far.

Better still to wait till next years warmer weather to come round again.
Kind of nice in an abstract sort of way.


Jon

[Charles uk]

Why do they need Lacquer? & what does it do?

[headdownarseup]

Lacquer provides a durable finish over the top of the delicate waterslide transfer. The transfer itself is incredibly thin and unless adequately protected will get scratched in next to no time at all.
There are some types of lacquer that are not phased by fuel, and in the case of a fuel tank probably provide the best form of protection.
Self adhesive stickers are quite a bit easier to apply to a freshly painted tank, and will probably allow you a few times to place and reset the sticker into the right position. The trouble is with vinyl stickers is that they're quite a bit thicker than a waterslide transfer and will need a lot of lacquer to blend the edges of the sticker seamlessly.

How things got done in the good 'ol days is probably not too dissimilar to what we're doing nowadays.
Varnishes behave in a similar way, but when applied directly onto metal surfaces can discolour over time. Varnish applied directly onto wooden surfaces (if done correctly) look superb and will probably last for many years before needing any re-working. When applied to a fuel tank there will always be some uncertainty as to how long that lovely finish will last.

By far the best way to apply this durable clear coat is by spraying (either by rattle can or by professional air fed paint guns) but it's a skill that takes a fair time to master. Temperatures will affect how good the overall finish will be as can be seen by Jacobs not too shabby attempt here. I think looking at the pictures there's a combination of things that's gone wrong, not least too much too quickly and maybe outside temps may have been on the cool side.
Brush painting is a lot easier to master and probably easier to correct if you get paint runs. Spraying on the other hand is a lot harder to get right with consistent good results.
Enamel paints (the sort we use on cylinders etc.) benefit from being slowly baked onto the metal surface before this tuff outer shell to the paint starts to develop.The trouble is enamel will chip quite easily so not really the best type of paint to use in conjunction with a delicate waterslide transfer on a fuel tank, but maybe back in the good 'ol days a similar process may have been used.

Paint compatibility comes into play as well. I would try to keep the black paint the same brand as the clear coat. If the clear coat is fuel proof as well this will only help in the finished article.
Before undertaking any spraying firstly you need to find a reliable source for your paint.My local shop doesn't always have what i need when i need it, and at times can be hit or miss as to a good compatibility.Read the small print on the cans before you purchase as this will give you the best information. You might be asking paint is paint isn't it? Not exactly. They all do different things for different applications. Experiment on a scrap tank with whatever brand of paint you can buy readily and see what gives you the best finish. Then stick with that particular brand if you feel it's giving you good results. Practice makes perfect.
6 p's have been mentioned many times by me before. Never a truer word here

With a coloured paint you can pretty much apply as many coats as you like to get the surface just right. With clear coats you don't get as many options. Little and often works well, but read those instructions on the can as the "time window" between coats and re-application can be critical before things go wrong.
Hope this helps


Jon

[Charles uk]

Did British Seagull ever use lacquer?

Did new Seagull tanks ever come with a high gloss finish?

[seagull101]

Charles,
I have a NOS steel fuel tank from John,
It definitely has been lacquered as you cant see the edge of the transfer.

Jacob

[Oyster 49]

I use Halfords black gloss, and fuel resistant lacquer, which has given good results. I’d agree with leaving the paint to fully cure. Note the big difference between drying and curing.

I also flat back the gloss with 2000 grit wet and dry before applying the decal, and apply the lacquer in a warm condition by creating a mist, 10 minutes between very light mist coats. Works a treat, but the lacquer needs to be left to fully cure for weeks before it can cope with petrol.

[Keith.P]

From what I know, the original decals that seagull used are not the same as the ones you can get now.
The ones we use now are water slide decals screen printed on one sheet and the original ones were screen printed as individual words on one sheet, that's why you can see the edge of the decals around each word, as they were laid down on the tank as one sheet and the backing paper removed using a solvent, as decals can be made up of layers of paint and lacquer to make them look glossy.
We use lacquer to protect the decal and tank from fuel, plus it helps hide the edges of the modern decal, but I don't think the tanks were lacquered originally.

[seagull101]

Having a closer look at my NOS tank it would appear that Keith is correct.

[Charles uk]

So in the mid to late 60's no evidence of Lacquer use by Seagull, but still quite a glossy finish.

[Oyster 49]

That’s my view too. I think the original finish was a fairly hard enamel or similar, modern paints are much softer, unless using 2 pack.

One word of caution if using a modern 2k aerosol can, the two components mix in the can and can only be used for a while I think. However you must use an air fed mask as the paint is very nasty if inhaled, and a normal cotton mask is not enough. Use it with care if you must, I won’t use it, too dangerous for home use.