Its time for electric seagulls (E.Gulls)

[EGULL]

Are you bored of servicing your outboard or main engine tired of the constant up keep. As this 2100 century begins we are seeing more and more of our every day transport being electrified planes,trains and auto mobiles but very little on the scene of shipping, i visit my local harbour from time to time and am disgusted to see so may petrol out-boards and diesel exhaust pipes being left unregulated to dump there soot and oil deposits with every puff of your engines yeh you my hate me for that comment but times have to change and fast so i made an electric seagull 40 minus, i hope the weather stays fair if so i will be testing very soon.

[Keith.P]

Interesting, but impractical.
You would be amazed at the amount of large boats that are electric, they don't run on batteries, but produce electricity to turn the props, pretty common really.
Electric outboards have been about since the turn of the century and they haven't exactly caught on.
Down points, the extra weight of the battery in the boat, how far can you go on a charge and 6-8 hours charging time.
If my Seagull went over the side, there would be a good chance of me getting it going again, would I want to touch a home made electric outboard once its been wet, water and electric don't mix too well.

I look at it this way, you have pollution in the world and some of the really bad stuff has been hidden from the public for years, my most used motor is a little forty 10:1 oil mix from the 50's, I find that much greener then a nuclear powered jet from the 60's that irradiated the crew and spewed radiation as it went, as it was an open system, produced in the US as well as USSR, this is only some of what we know about.
So it disgusts me in the same way, electric is green and free, no its not, its just out of sight out of mind, as it comes out of a plug, never having to look at the bigger picture, someone has to produce it, but that is never taken into consideration by tree huggers.

[EGULL]

See thats the sort of attitude that befuddles me yes i know that huge tankers generate electricity to turn the prop but they still use oil, there is one vessel out there that is pure solar with battery storage in the hull so i know its possible, now with charge times cut to an hour or less and and cell packs one third the weight of lead not mention developments on vertical wind turbines and solar using all three as one unit demands on just cells themselves would be greatly reduced, thus giving you longer running and if you do run low just anchor up and make a cuppa and youll be on your way in no time at all. As for waterproofing there many systems you could use such as gaskets,silicone,epoxy s hell you can even use scotch guard im sure they use something equivalent to protect mobile phones, its all down to your costing. Plus this is a prototype junk build parts cost all in less than £200 then theres fabrication, rewiring then testing.
Keith i know petrol is the best option we have but its not the right option so dont hate me for trying, be part of the push forward and grab an out board and electrify it.

[Charles uk]

I think it's a great topic, but not for me.

Do we really need 2 editions of this thread? it's hard enough to find anything now, without hiding the wood with trees!

[Keith.P]

I'm not a hater, if it wasn't for new technology we would still in the stone age.
It's just an electric outboard is no more greener then a seagull, a seagull will not last forever, even though we try, some of my motors are 70 years old and nearly 100% recyclable, just look on ebay, then you have the green equivalent electric outboard, plastics, modern power sells, solar panels, just more for the land fill.

[tambikeboy]

Not for me neither each and everyone of us are guilty one way or another of pollution as for tree hugging i do my bit for that also most mornings i get washed in a puddle and weekends i bath with a friend (save water) then sit down to a bowl of pee and ham soup made from chicken so as we hear so too often EACH TO THERE OWN and love thy neighbour. ....but don't get caught jumping the fence.

ROLL ME UP AND SMOKE ME WHEN I DIE.

[headdownarseup]

Interesting topic this for me being in the motor trade. Sooner or later we'll all have to look for alternative modes of transport that are greener and cleaner. There's talk in the news recently that diesel may be coming to an end for cars in general. I for one will be sad to see diesel go. It's really not as bad as people are making it out to be.It just seems to get a lot of bad press recently. Take a look in any new car showroom these days and you'll more than likely see a "city car" in one form or other. Powered by a much smaller petrol engine (sometimes a hybrid) often with a 1 litre 3 cylinder engine (sometimes turbo charged) that will go all week on a fiver's worth of fuel. Ample power but with very good returns on fuel economy. Mark my words, in the next 20 or so years we'll all be driving something like this until the reserves of crude oil have been depleted. Just wait and see...

Electric vehicles (for me any way) on the face of it are greener/cleaner call it what you like and i'm all for that, BUT i've seen first hand the cost of replacing batteries on these types of vehicles. To say it's eyewatering is an understatement. Having said that not all vehicles are the same however and certain manufacturers have wised up to this making the replacement of cells on their own much more simple and cost effective for us motorists. Still not cheap though whichever way you look at it. Maintenance costs are considerably reduced compared to petrol/diesel powered vehicles as there's far less that needs looking at on the schedule apart from brakes, lights, tyres etc. and they cost money to replace as well don't forget, so perhaps not quite as green as we'd like them to be. Give it another 10 years and the price of these electric vehicles might just come down to a level where we can all buy one without a second thought. At the moment it's the price of these things that puts a lot of people off them, so they stick with what they know and more importantly what they can afford.
Electric bicycles are a bit easier to manage. I see quite a lot of those around Bristol at the moment. There's a few all electric mopeds too (expensive compared to a conventional petrol powered moped) but the battery range from these is next to useless really.
For me though it's still far too early to say what will happen with the internal combustion engine in whatever shape or form it takes over the next 20-30 years. But something will eventually happen that will upset an awful lot of us that we've grown accustomed to over the last 100 odd years.
I also agree 100% that we could all do our bit for a greener future. The trouble is where do you start?

Outboard motors...
not quite such a simple thing to retrofit. Keeping the outfit sealed from the elements is one thing, then as mentioned there's the weight of the battery (i'm guessing your first testing will be with a 12 volt car battery or similar) Sounds pretty good in principle and i applaud you for your efforts. Keeping the overall weight down to acceptable level will be a challenge. Then an effective motor to power this outfit with a speed controller could be another issue, but going by your pics i'd say you've got a pretty good handle on it so far. I hope it works out well.

Interesting, but alas i'm still on the other side of the fence for now. Sorry

Jon

[THCL500J8]

I own an electric outboard, an old Torqeedo its very good for what i use it for.
Its wonderful to sneaker the sail boat away from the mooring in the mariner when everyone is still asleep, or drunk.
It good in the dingy in places were no 2 stroke engines are allowed, and in sail only areas, and it internal battery lasts a few hours at a few knots.
And it can be connected to a external battery, so 4 knots for about 3 hours is the maximum.

But the sail boat also has it real engine a EFNRL used when everyone is awake, and were 2 strokes are allowed.

I was lent a Torqeedo cruise 4.0 T € 2.799,00 (about the same power as a 6hp petrol) and the external battery Power 26-104 € 2.499,00 Capacity 2,685 Wh. Internal gps had boat speed at 13kph and motor at 365 - 440 watts so not a lot of power. And had a wonderful time in a 22 foot grand banks dory and spent most of the day at hull speed. Electric works in this case, and if i could justify the cost, with the fast charger, and extras, its about $10,000 AU Dollars.

So i guess im saying i will keep playing with my seagulls, as i love them and use the 9.8 4 stroke when i need a wife friendly outboard.
But i will be keeping a eye in the price of electric boating, after all i can charge the battery of my solar power on the house, and boat for "free"
But ten thousand buys you a few 10hp 4 strokes don't it.

[Collector Inspector]

Buying anything second hand has a reduced carbon footprint. The older the better actually.

Electric conversion on the top of a leg of an old dear is not green at all, but an increased footprint just to turn a prop.

Whatever..............I do not hug trees but I am concerned with a particular water table in the SW of Western Australia.............

I think that this all "Electrifying" just like the musical?

Smiles and good topic Aye?

BnC

[headdownarseup]

Each to their own with this topic, and for now most of us will still be enjoying smoke and noise for as long as possible.
But eventually we might not have a choice.(look at what's already happening in parts of Holland) And when that happens there will be tears.

It could happen sooner than we think.
With Brexit still one of the big talking points in Europe at the moment, i can't help thinking this sort of thing might be in the firing line.
No more 2 stroke anything, no more diesel this and that. God only knows what's around the corner.We'll just have to sit it out and hope the bigwigs are sensible with it.

[John@sos]

I think the idea has merit, especially when British Seagull tell me they no longer have any cylinder blocks!! (That may change if they decide to invest in Silver Century and Forty blocks later in the year.

I have seen various conversions of Seagulls, (including that hilarious steam boiler and motor!!) But none of the electric ones so far have stood the test of time.

Selva made one commercially, a 4hp, whatever happened to that, badged as a Seagull Sport Electric.

As I see it, so long as we can keep our old Seagulls on the water, legally, and with the reasonable availablity of parts.. I can still enjoy the blue smoke for a few more years... but if, eventually we cannot run our Seagulls, for whatever reason.... maybe, just maybe this will keep part of the Seagulls in use.

I run my Seagulls on biodegradable 2T oil and the EFPC I have has a sealed gearbox, so emmissions are minimal and turn to compost, but it still produces CO2.

But then also does an electric motor! What most do not take into considerations with electric drives, cars or outboards, is they are charged normally from the mains. Unless you have your own personal solar panel bank, or a windmill, this is likely to mean a mix of Nuclear, oil, gas or coal fired electrical generation. The latter three all produce pollutants.

We all know electrics and water do not mix, so to get a reliable electric powered Seagull will entail a lot of careful waterproofing and sealing, plus probably better battery capacities than we have at the moment. At least with a conventional Seagull if you run out of go you can get a can refilled... From the people I have known with electric motors, they tend to be inland lake and canal users, where a motor failing through fuel shortage is not a major problem...

Darren's experiment is just that, an experiment and great to see the ingenuity. Long way to go before we see these afloat in numbers, but who knows.

What we really need to see is a practical Seagull conversion with a flux capacitor!

John
SOS

[headdownarseup]

Here here John.
It's a good idea in principle, and i take my hat off to anyone that can re-use parts from another application. As you rightly say, it's how the battery gets re-charged that's not quite as green as some of us would like. C02 emissions from the motor will still be an issue. (not that i'm a tree hugger, but i do respect nature and our environment as much as i am able)

I'm on the side of the fence that still prefers petrol to power their outboard until such times that the authorities decide to change how we use our boats and engines. Hopefully when or if that ever happens i will be too old to care any more.

I think it's still a very interesting topic however and one that deserves more merit than it's currently getting.

Jon

[EGULL]

Why thank john and jon for at least some positive attitude towards what mite be your future, but as of yet we dont see any affordable outboards out on the market so instead of waiting for one i just made one as A, a bit of fun and B, to see what performance i could get from a 1.5 kw motor, so as ive stated i will be testing very soon and ill know for sure what this experiment can do and if thats the case would people buy it as a kit to update a very old but worldly used machines, but judging by the comments so far id say no. I would like to point out you guys seem to care more for cars than your waterways i mean you have to take it every year for an MOT (uk) and it has to pass an emissions test so if that was in forced on the waterways and made law would you comply, probably not and yet its the same fuel the same in every way, yes i know where a ways off with electric outboards but that just the industry's dumbing down the market make s**t outboards get s**t reviews and yet if you make a good one charge a shed loads. Its the people that will change, judging by some of these comments it sounds like some of you have lost the will to change each to there own.

[tambikeboy]

Just read through this thread for the second time and nowhere am i picking up on any haters of any shape or form fair play to you if you want to build a electric seagull nothing wrong with a bit of invention but you seem to be having a rant about pullotion surley you should be starting on the big guys (industrial ) and not the little guy going putt/putt up and down the loch every now and again as for tree hugging what's wrong with that (nowt) I'm a long haired friend of jesus looking for more disipales and someone to row the boat when 2 stroke runs out so keep up the good work and look forward to the end result once again EACH TO THERE OWN....I'm away to splash about in a puddle feel free to join me....

[Keith.P]

I take my boat out in the summer and I use different motors, Cary Jet, little forty, Evinrude 5.5, not just seagulls, I have insurance and pay for a day ticket, about £8 to use the river for the day.
I have been told when I go and get my ticket, we haven't sold any tickets for some time, I'm about the only one that buys a ticket there, the only place available locally to get one.
Its funny how many canoeists and inflatables I see on the water, especially in the summer, I pay for the privilege to do what I like to do, when most don't.
I'm not a greeny in any scene of the word, But when you come to an EGULL, which could be an E-whatever outboard leg you wish to use and saying, this is an eco-outboard, which it is clearly not and say am disgusted to see so may petrol out-boards and diesel exhaust pipes being left unregulated to dump there soot and oil deposits
You're only going to put someone's back up, as we discuss vintage outboards and how to keep them going.
There will be a day when we won't be able to use old outboards any more, but until then, I will be making the most of them.