LS in USA

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tambikeboy
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Re: LS in USA

Post by tambikeboy »

Look again it has 2x 2 part plug caps......sexy
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tambikeboy
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Re: LS in USA

Post by tambikeboy »

Keith.P wrote:This I the kind of things I have seen, when it comes to tillers.
If I see them, I keep a picture of them and have more than a handful of motors with paint still on tillers.
Off Ebay this one I suspect.
It came from whitby keith all original from new 1 owner. ... :lol:
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Keith.P
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Re: LS in USA

Post by Keith.P »

I Always used to forget to take a picture when getting another motor in the collection, its a good point to take a picture, especially before some big ham fisted Scotsman gets his hands on it.
tambikeboy
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Re: LS in USA

Post by tambikeboy »

:lol: :lol: no ham fisted keith just at the right place at the right time iv had it for 2yrs I know the previous owner. ... :lol: :lol:
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Nudge
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Re: LS in USA

Post by Nudge »

Very nice!..... But I see a ding in the exhaust pipe... That will need fixing :roll: 8)
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Re: LS in USA

Post by headdownarseup »

Charles

The point i was trying to make with tillers was this.

As per previous pics of the "side mounted" (tilting) tiller, this STYLE of tiller as far as Jeremy and myself have been able to work out, made its first appearance on an FV. (i have one such FV(11716 and its on the list too) with said "tilting tiller" along with 3 LS's with the same style of tiller(on the list as well) which are pretty much within the same time period give or take a year or two) It falls inline with the change to the crankcases on these "little 40's".
With a webbed crankcase you'd normally find a FIXED (non moving) tiller, no webbing means you'll normally find a TILTING tiller. Does this make sense? Just to add some more confusion i remember a while back that there's an early FV on here somewhere that's had a replacement top and bottom crankcase (originally a fixed non-moving tiller according to its serial number) Only the pics of this "oddball" FV show it with a tilting tiller with removable tiller mounting bolted through both halves of the crankcases as you'd expect to find on all the later FV's. As mentioned before some of these seagulls don't always follow the rules for any number of different reasons. Detective work and good eyes followed by several caffeinated beverages and discussions with other members made much more sense of this.
This style of tiller(side mounted/tilting) then continues (albeit in different lengths but with the same DOVER/DOVERITE grip) on many other seagull models too.
If ever you needed clarification of this, (from memory) Jeremy has a couple of FV's in his collection with these "tilting" tillers.
Not that un-common, but they are out there.
So on the face of it, a fairly typical design of tiller that changed from an original FIXED type on the earlier FV's etc., to a "redesigned" version that becomes quite common throughout the model range. Nothing unusual in that at all.


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Charles uk
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Re: LS in USA

Post by Charles uk »

The point I was making with the FV series tillers, was that the tilting version which accounts for getting on for 20% of the total, shows strong signs of being painted, & a few of the stub tiller versions have traces of paint that looks Seagull, so it might be dangerous to state as a fact.
(remember the FV isn't painted, but the larger LS is painted)
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
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Re: LS in USA

Post by Keith.P »

With a webbed crankcase you'd normally find a FIXED (non moving) tiller, no webbing means you'll normally find a TILTING tiller. Does this make sense?
Yes, carrying a little forty with a non webbed crank case by the handle will most likely open up the crank halves, the fix was to include the web on the crank case, this helped, as now you have a tilting tiller.
But as far as I'm aware Seagull still had an ongoing problem with them and replaced a motor for newer models if it came in under guarantee.
Not what you would call a recall, more of a damage limitation process.
So I gather.
one reason why the spares stopped so soon.
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Re: LS in USA

Post by Gannet »

Hi Keith,
That photo of the FVP with all the accessories around it, including two Champion (?) two piece plug caps, do you know the serial number of the FVP?
Thanks.

Tillers
The early F and the FVs were initially fitted with 5" stub tillers. I suspect - only suspect - that these were probably not painted.

I wrote the following on page 5 of my data sheet on the Early Forty Series:-

The BS parts list also infers that the Stub Tiller was not fitted after 11000. The evidence collected here would support that inference. The evidence would also suggest that the tilting tiller was possibly never an option on new FV/ FVPs. With the introduction of the LS, all tillers appear to be tilting. Earlier FV/FVPs appear to be sometimes fitted at overhaul/repair with a tlting tiller. This must have been especially so, when stocks of crankcases with tiller stubs were no longer available after 11000. The use of the ‘T’ suffix appears to be inconsistent; probably due to which company carried out the repair.


There is only an indirect linkage between the type of tiller and the webbed crankcase. However, when FV/FVP were overhauled with new crankcases, the only specification of crankcase available from probably sometime in late 1952, was the webbed crankcase without the aluminium stub. This was the current production standard. So new crankcases fitted to FV/FVPs during overhaul would have had to be fitted with a tilting tiller. The webbed crankcase was introduced (erratically) probably in the 5000/5500 serial number range. So FVs prior to 5000, were given, on subsequent overhaul, a webbed crankcase. This virtually proved that the tilting tiller was never an optional choice.

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tambikeboy
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Re: LS in USA

Post by tambikeboy »

That photo of the FVP with all the accessories around it, including two Champion (?) two piece plug caps, do you know the serial number of the FVP?

Jeremy numbers are FVP8250 I'm sure you have details if not I'll get them to you. ....
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Gannet
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Re: LS in USA

Post by Gannet »

Thanks Tam,
Yes, you are right. I have all the details (except the flywheel date) of FVP8250.
What I was specifically interested in was whether it came to you already fitted with a Champion 2 piece plug cap?
Cheers,

Jeremy
tambikeboy
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Re: LS in USA

Post by tambikeboy »

Yes Jeremy it came to me as seen in picture 2x 2 piece plug cap previous owner assures me that's what he got when purchased except for pull start rope was replaced the original round (ball) type was lost only ever used in a Scottish hill loch for 1hr times 7 holidays don't know why anyone would want to have that many spark plugs although only 2 of them have been used i will pm flywheel numbers when home. .....cheers keep up the good work p.s the extending tiller is seagull stamped. .
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Gannet
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Re: LS in USA

Post by Gannet »

Tam,
Thanks for that info.
I will note that it came with the 2 piece Champion plug cap.
I would also like to know whether the gearbox has 2 inlet water holes. I am sure that the 3 hole version came along much later.

I am interested in the extension tillers. I have a couple. They are 14" long, and as you say, have Seagull moulded into the black plastic knob. When do you think that they were introduced?
Keith and Charles are the experts at digging this info out from old parts lists etc. Nothing like a bit of flattery when one wants some help!


The spanner - again is that an older one that the usual more rectangular shaped ones? They appear to be slightly cheaper looking and feel than the usual ones. But with that shape they would have probably used a lot more material. Anybody know?

Cheers,

Jeremy
tambikeboy
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Re: LS in USA

Post by tambikeboy »

Yes Jeremy 2 holed gearbox 14" tiller when made i do not know will leave to the master's to decide all I know is it was all purchased together i will look out paperwork to distinguish a sale date and report back spanner appears to be older type with the 2 worded seagull I.e


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water bug
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Re: LS in USA

Post by water bug »

Well it has been a while, but the new cast cylinder head is now machined ,and the Power head assembled with new copper gaskets top and bottom of cyl.
Assembly can now proceed , with many details still to be worked out. Next will be assembly of drive shaft, water tube and exhaust tube, + Gear box.
More pictures to follow. Picture is of an LS head and an FVP head. machined. I have made one extra each , in case someone has a need. WB
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