New replacement cranks from Bermuda

[Oyster 49]

I see on the seagull facebook page that new roller bearing cranks are now available in Bermuda. The later seagulls with roller bearings have pressed in big end pins, and needle roller big end bearings, the replacements have a lot more meat around the hole the big end pin presses into. I understand the later cranks were prone to corrosion around the lower seal too.

Nice bit of re-manufacturing

[Charles uk]

You will also note that the Bermudian racer marketplace gets the chance first.

NOW AVAILABLE:
Aftermarket British Seagull needle roller crankshaft - $250.00 ea.

These are replacements for the (no longer available) needle roller crankshafts that were factory fitted to Kingfisher, Osprey and Curlew models.

They are designed to be more robust than the originals, having more material around the big end pin and therefore a slightly larger overall diameter. As a result, some material will need to be removed from the crankcase halves to enable fitting. The amount needed to be removed varies from model to model and also depending on the year of casting.

As a specifically British Seagull aftermarket part, that is reasonably priced and commercially available to all, these crankshafts are recognized by the 'Round the Island Seagull Race as legitimate Seagull replacement parts under the rules, allowing them to be used in old/new motor and stock/modified classes.

There is a limited stock, so they are being offered to the Bermuda market first. Contact Jason Semos @ 734 6809

[NaughtyBits]

We'd also like to gauge interest overseas to help us determine suitable numbers in the event of a re-order. So please feel free to post in this thread if anyone has a serious interest in one or more of these replacement roller bearing cranks. Thanks all & Happy New Year.

[Oyster 49]

One thing I would like to ask as an interested observer on the the seagull racing scene. If I was to fit this part to a stock century (LLS or similar) Is there an advantage over the standard seagull crank? If so should this be classed as a modified engine rather than stock class?

Another thing to note is that standard century cranks are available from British Seagull (Or from SOS) A lot cheaper and no machining of the crankcases required either...

http://www.sheridanmarine.com/product/b ... rankshafts

Also if this crank was fitted to a stock kingfisher it would allow the engine be set up to rev higher, so would this give an unfair advantage in the stock class v a guy with a standard crank that won't rev so high without letting go?

[NaughtyBits]

Oyster,

- There are almost a dozen (more/less) different cylinder castings across the the 102 cc range of 102/Century/Silver Century models - some of those castings with large advantages over others with regards to port timing. Yet all stock. Further, for the same casting, some cylinders were machined with such tolerances that one cylinder might require an 1/8 spacer to correct port timings compared to another. Again, a large advantage.

Some would say swapping those cylinder castings, model for model, would no longer make your motor stock. Races designed around such rules immediately disadvantage 3/4's of the fleet, imo. Others feel differently. At the end of the day, your question regarding stock & modified classes can only be answered by the committee of whichever race you're interested in.

- Stock cranks & conrods from British Seagull are not cheaper, landed in Bermuda. With shipping & duty, given the current exchange rate, we're looking at $260+ for a stock bushing crank & conrod. Also, please note that we're not trying to compete with British Seagull or SOS. We're providing replacement roller bearing cranks - which haven't been available from British Seagull for many, many years.

- The guy with a late model Kingfisher, fitted with a roller bearing crank, would then have an unfair advantage over the guy with an early model kingfisher, with a standard crank. Both stock. My thought is that the availability of these replacement cranks at an affordable price to everyone who races in Bermuda (rather than the few with deep pockets) serves to level that playing field. Rather than knowingly keep the guy with an early model kingfisher perpetually disadvantaged.

Not everyone will see things the same way, and that's ok. We're all fascinated (or is it frustrated?) by these motors for one reason or another. Some of us like to restore them, collect them, etc. Some of us like to see how fast we can make them go. We simply see these cranks as trying to fill a gap left when British Seagull stopped producing & selling roller bearing cranks and would like to hear back if anyone outside of Bermuda is interested.

Have a good one,
Jason

[Oyster 49]

I'd like to come over and join your race one of these days..one day

Interesting questions re stock v modified. I'm come across the same discussions in dinghy and yacht racing too. I used to race a laser which is really strict, with no aftermarket sails, spars or foils allowed. Aftermarket was massively cheaper! Where does stock end and modified start? One for the race committee to make a decision on. As I say I'm just an interested observer, but you don't want to stifle the racing scene where the emphasis seems to be on the fun of taking part!

Re your crank, its a nice bit of work, and I would suggest that the committee approves it as a new for old replacement for needle roller engines, as it will give longevity going forward which will help keep the scene going.

However I don't think it should be allowed as a stock replacement on a century, as it gives an advantage both in RPMs the engine can handle and the bigger crank will give more crankcase compression and thus a performance gain? Plus correct stock parts are available for century engines from Seagull. I'd suggest that fitting this new crank into a century should mean the engine moves into modified.

[Charles uk]

Jason I'm not sure your right on your late & early model Kingfisher information, on Seagull's own dyno, they both recorded almost identical power outputs.

early Kingfisher 4.6hp @ 5000 revs (1985)
late Kingfisher 4.3hp @ 5000 revs (1990) during testing of the needle roller crank (concern was expressed about decreased primary compression)

[NaughtyBits]

Oyster,

Absolutely, fun first. We'd love to have you come down. I'm sure Charles might have at least one kind thing to say about most of us.. The crank was brought about by a fellow seagull racer, I'm just helping out

Note that in Bermuda, the stock & modified motors run in the same class, with an opportunity to identify your motor as 'stock' to compete for a stock motor trophy, The Lightbourn Cup. The Committee can only rely on racers being honest about what they've done and any racer has the right to protest. I don't think many of us take the opportunity to talk smack & be competitive to the point where bad feelings develop. It's not that kind of party!

Arguments over stock & modified motors & cheeky cheating pirates go all the way back to the original Seagull races in the late 70's early 80's (Someone older & wiser can clarify the dates of the Devonshire Bay races?). IMO, our race rules have evolved to what they are with a sense of fairness and realistic acceptance of the wide range of performance from the various models 'out of the shop'. They'll continue to evolve, I expect. Our Committee has decided that offering these cranks to all interested moves ahead with leveling the playing field for those coming into our race - which has grown dramatically over the last few years. They must be doing something right! (EDIT)

Charles,

Sorry, to clarify - if the expectation is that these replacement roller bearing cranks give a significant advantage - my point was that the expectation of an advantage already exists. Whether that expectation bears out or not is another matter. You also know that a huge advantage already exists motor to motor - as you know how much the port timings differ - out of the factory, so to speak - cylinder to cylinder.

At any rate, like I said, different people will feel differently. We're just trying to fill a gap. Let us know if you're interested...

[cobbadog]

For my 2 cents worth I think that you are filling the void in the market for all who play with Gulls! Well done mate. I have seen a few races on YouTube from Bermuda and you are right, it is all about fun. All that was missing is some Jimmy Buffet music playing in the back ground. Maybe "A Pirate Looks at Forty" (pun intended) would be most appropriate.
Another point you make is the honesty of the owner to own up to any modifications. If they don't all they are doing is fooling themselves.