Aluminium G clamp Transom Bracket

[Charles uk]

Aluminium G clamp Transom Bracket.

Jon do you have any details in your 102 data sheets of the years when the above transom bracket was in use?

I'm assuming it was post bronze skeletal & pre grooved bronze G clamp, but have no evidence to support this.

[RickUK]

I had an 'AC' 102 with a serial number in the 3000's from memory, which had the aluminium clamps and the ninety-degree brass clamp screws.

I always assumed the bracket was correct to the motor, bur interested to have confirmation.


Rick

[Oyster 49]

Interesting subject. I have always thought that the alloy clamps were early post war too. Perhaps an attempt at weight saving, but obviously the strength was poor and they did not last.

Interestingly the model ON/OP ones seem to be weak also.

[Charles uk]

There is little doubt that the skeletal brass bracket was not strong/heavy enough for purpose, but bearing in mind it surfaced somewhere around late 45 when everything was rationed, it might be the best that could be done with the limited material availability, it looks like the cast aluminium centre almost identical to the classic bracket centre part with cast ally G cramps was the next step in the bracket development cycle, followed by the grooved brass G cramp.

I'm hoping that Jon's data confirms something like this & provide us with some dates!

[Hugz]

I didn't know there was an early ali G clamp. Interesting. Can't wait for Jon's research to be revealed. Exciting hey! I'm assuming the Ali G is few and far between?? Any photos?

[Oyster 49]

They are a few of them about, probably more common than the skeletal bracket.

[headdownarseup]

Well, the best i can do at the moment is to say that i have/had an early AC with an all alloy clamp with the bent brass thumbscrews, also in the 3000's.
3059 i think it is!
I think probably just as scarce as the skeletal brackets. Both of them are a tad fragile. I'd say the slightly later all bronze version of these "standard" transom clamps are a bit more plentiful.

It is extremely difficult at times to try and get some juicy titbits of data with these 102's. But if i were to hazard a guess i'd say that the skeletal bracket was early post war (perhaps even very late wartime) and as Chas has mentioned the availability of some materials might have been the governing factor with some of these. Rationing wasn't just restricted to how much food was available from the shops, but also general manufacture too.
British seagull i'm sure were not exempt from this either. As and when such materials became available i think some slight changes to transom brackets became more and more prevalent.

These all aluminium brackets are fairly fragile things. The main centre section seems to survive well enough, it's more the threaded clamps that self destruct as the aluminium begins to strip out of the threads and the thumbscrews have nothing to work against. The 1 all ally bracket i have stashed away has very floppy thumbscrews too. More of a curio these days i think rather than anything useful.
As far as data collection goes, i've given up asking such questions unless i manage to get hold of some very good close up photos of something old.
The trouble is, unless i restrict the data fields to a manageable amount the total area required to answer each and every possible permutation to all of this would require something in the region of 3 x A3 sized bits of paper to fill in just 1 line of data. That's very nearly 50 odd different bits of data to each motor. Now you can see where i have to restrict the questions and answers i'm trying to gather, otherwise i'll end up going every which way and not make any progress.
Jeremy's list on the "little 40 series" has 10 data fields to each separate line. If i carry on the way i'm going my list would end up with around 100 data fields, so i'm afraid i'm going to have to narrow things down quite a lot just to get it to fit on here.

But don't panick, cos i also keep another "secret" list with all the really juicy bits as and when i can get it. There's not much on it mind you as most of it's already been talked about before on other topics, but i keep it anyway.

It's coming soon

i promise

Jon

[Keith.P]

I have come across stories about firms having been manufacturing aircraft parts and so on during the war, that have used left over materials to manufacture their own products post war.
If I remember correctly the story was about a model steam engine manufacturer.
Yes I have collected most things, Mamod SC3 and so on.
I don't think it was Mamod, I think it was a Luton Bowman I had, I read something about them using left over materials, to start the production of their own models.
I will stop rattling on now.

As wartime production stopped, materials must have come available.

I have not see a aluminium G clamp, only the bronze ones, Is the bronze one with the embossed number on it the first bronze G clamp?

[Charles uk]

It's an easy low cost repair to the worn threads on an Ali G, Jon.

Is the centre section of your bracket exactly the same as the classic centre? just with a cast ali tilt stay, not 1/4" bent stainless.

Wasn't the all bronze bracket an optional extra/ additional cost upgrade?

Does anyone out there have an Ali G bracket on an AC, AD & with a serial number not in the 3000's?

If we don't ask all the questions now Jon, there is a good chance we will never get the answer, as the vast majority of our members are only active contributors for 2 or 3 years.

Keith I think CharlesP & I came to the conclusion that only the bronze clamps with ST 1326-9T cast on them were fitted with the L shaped transom screw by Seagull so our assumption was that they were the first of the individual bronze "bolt on" G cramps, basically an upgrade of the Ali G.

[headdownarseup]

Hold on before we all get carried away with this.
Easy repair...maybe, although i would suspect that the vast majority of owners in the 40's/50's (probably long gone by now) might have favoured a quicker and easier option of a replacement part rather than trying to find someone to carry out a repair. Thinking slightly outside the box here, most seagull owners during the late 1940's/early 1950's would probably have been the likes of doctors, bankers,lawyers etc. so that owning a boat of some description wouldn't have been too much bother to them. The average working man on the other hand would have struggled to earn around £500/£600 annually in old money, possibly a bit less. To put things into comparison the price of a typical seagull back then was virtually 6 months wages or thereabouts to the average working Joe back then. This average working Joe has more to worry about like where his next meal is coming from, or how to keep the roof over his head, or putting shoes on his kids feet.
It's not until the mid to late 1960's that working folk had a bit more expendable income with which to go out and enjoy themselves with. More folks from this time period were able to afford their first car, go on foreign holidays for the first time and so on. (things that many of us take for granted these days) Going back to 40's i reckon that only the richest of people could afford to play with boats and outboards, and if you could afford to own a boat, then you could probably afford to have "your man" deal with such things when they went wrong.

Part numbers on BOTH the alloy and bronze clamps are ST 1326-9T. My own all ally bracket has the same part numbers.
Bent brass thumbscrews appear on hollow sectioned clamps also, not just the solid ally or bronze types. (you won't see that kind of info on my data sheets i'm afraid)

Tilt stays often get swapped about over the years with most things seagull. However the cast ally type appears quite a lot (although not always) on the earlier "square" type bracket both ally and bronze. There's also a bronze version of this tilt stay as well which is different to the skeletal tilt stay.The stainless wire jobbie appears on all sorts, both early and late, but usually on the later "rounded" type bracket.

It's possible at this point that some of you might be asking "what's a square or rounded bracket".
Bear with me and i'll get some pics up tomorrow to show you.


Good topic this by the way, nice one Chas.


Jon

[Oyster 49]

Don't forget that in 1940s many items of machinery were repaired, and every corner shop motorcycle garage did things like helicoil repairs. So a simple thread repair would have been a lot easier to get done quickly and locally.

[Hugz]

Presumably it would take a decade or two before the corrosion caused a repair to be sought which would takes us into the sixties when money was more bountiful.

I guess I better try and source these ali G clamps. My post war transom collection is now incomplete

[Oyster 49]

I'll keep a look out for you Hugo

[headdownarseup]

Best of luck with that one

Jon

[Charles uk]

All the calculations that we've done in the past were based on the National Average Income, the most expensive that I've found for a small Seagull was the Marston OA at 14 weeks NAI in 1933, the FNR Marstons were 6 to 8 weeks dearer, but they didn't sell too many of those, after that they just got cheaper, in 1993 the top of the range was a Kingfisher which cost less than 10 weeks NAI.

Perhaps I didn't express myself very well Jon, the last of the Seagull transom bracket, to have the L shaped transom screw was the grooved bronze G cramp with ST 1326-9T cast on it, sorry I thought it was clear that the skeletal & the Ali G also had them.

You've got a lot more to get Hugo, side mount, brass bolt on 40, nylon & brass bolt on century, Mercury style curlew, Kingfisher.
At least you won't have to worry about starting them.