Mk1 Ignition system

[1charan]

LIke the Villiers coils, the old condensors are insulated on the inside with impregnated paper. And just like the Villiers coils, the paper deteriorates over time. More modern condensers (capacitors) will probably last for over a hundred years without problems.

The original capacitor has one lead (wire), the other lead is the metal casing. It should be possible to use a modern one with two leads, but I do not know the capacity in uF and the voltage. Does someone still have a good one and a multimeter that measures capacity too?

[Charles uk]

Jan just down the road/canal from you probably some new ones in stock.

[Rex NZ]

Adrian & others

Ignition capacitors are quite easy to check. No need to remove. Just disconnect it in situ.

Just use a good multimeter. Set to to capacitance & apply the probes. I'm not quite sure of the villiers original value, but I'd guess approx 0.20uF. If it's buggered, then that value is likely to have declined alot due to deteriotation of the dielectric. Alternatively, on a resistive measure, any continuity would indicate it's buggered.

RexNZ

[phil]

I've used the 0.20 mfd 600volt Sprague orange drop capacitor in the Mk1 magneto. It is readily available and as I recall less than $1. It was used in an AC model 102 that I had since it was rebuilt from parts about 6 years ago.

The nice thing about the Mk1 ignition is there is plenty of space where the old condenser fits to fit the new one and it will rarely be seen. Don't forget the end going to the points needs to be insulated, heat shrink tubing is probably the easiest for this.

[phil]

If you go to AOMCI.org, in the ask a member forum section you will see a recent posting called Thread lost? With my name on it.

It is a discussion of what is required for the best results when substituting a modern condenser for the original, probably a little more than many of us realized was necessary. It also gives some sources of supply, worked back from the manufacturers engineering staff.

I hope it is helpful to many on this board. While most of it may be over many of our "heads" at least it gives the final specs and sources of supply, as well as the important questions to ask when finding a replacement.

[Adrian Dale]

as noted earlier in this string, the original condensers are available from George at Villiers.com Go to the main site FAQ section and get the direct link.
I ordered one paid by Paypal and it was shipped to Australia the next day, 7 days later I had the item, fitted it and ran the engine: couldn't be simpler than that very good service thanks to Jon and George.

The FV is now fully assembled and tank tested, running perfectly. Don't fit a non original if you can fit the original, if it lasted 50 years.... I think it might just out last me!!

AJ

[Gannet]

Yes,
I would support that view of 'Don't fit a non original if the original is available', for two main reasons:-

1. Originality - I appreciate this is not for everybody.
2. It reinforces the supply chain for these old bits. It helps to ensure that, in this case, condensers, and other parts are more likely to be available in the long term. Just asking at specialist suppliers for bits which are not available right now, will increase the chances of it being available in the future. The classic car industry over the last 30 years is an example of this - I know the volumes are different, but even so the comparison I think is valid.

Jeremy

[Charles uk]

Why not talk to John Williams, I know he has the correct new condensor (Seagull part no. M1750) in stock, where as George I belive sells a condensor that will fit in the same location & does the job but might have been made for something similar.

I suppose your choice of supplier will depend on wether your restoring your Seagull, or just getting it going again.

John carries the full Seagull inventory of parts both new & second hand, I've had some very rare parts from him.

[Adrian Dale]

Thank you for your comments Charles, I got George's name form the main site posted by John, I just I followed the link. If this is a problem I suggest john removes the link from the site.

If you wish to discuss further you have my phone number

AJ

[Adrian Dale]

This is copied directly from the FAQ on he Main Site:

"Another tip was to re-solder the HT pip on the Villiers, in case the joint had gone dry just inside? Anyone had any luck with this one?
These days better to replace all with new parts, George at Villiersparts.co.uk (Opens in new window), he can refurbish a villiers back plate to new for £70 approx (2012 prices)."

From that quote it appears that John is actually suggesting that Villiers parts be purchased direct from George. This seems entirely reasonable to me given that the parts are manufactured to original specs. I would be most interested in John's comments on this.

AJ

[John@sos]

Hi Everyone,

I do indeed pass all Villiers enquiries on the George these days, especially coils, but I have most of the other parts for old Seagulls on the shelf here. including HT leads and caps etc.

I do have brand new MkII Villiers coils here, (list price £103.50!!) but I won't sell them, they were brand new 45 years ago minimum, and as they are insulated with 'shellac', a bio degradable varnish, they could fail tomorrow. Far safer with one of Georges new ones.

Geaorge does a refurbishment service where he will replace or refurbish any ignition part on the backplate and many opt for this. Contact him and send the backplate complete.

I still do have a few condensers here £20.00 a time, but suspect George's may be cheaper and newer!

I also have a few sets of points left £20.00

Those prices are approx half the list price! For the most part points are cleanable and will last foreever, so the few sets I have left will last a while I bet.!

regards,
John
SOS

after I wrote this I was informed that apparently someone on the forum has had a new Marston coil that he believes is faulty.???

I would like to hear feedback on Georges ignitions from anyone with any comments. So far I have only recieved positive feedback. Lots of it!

If I hear lots of negative, honest comments I can remove links to any dealer on my site, as I have done in the case of the chap I helped set up some 8 years ago in Worcestershire. He told me he knew nothing about Seagulls, so I freely gave him all I knew, hoped he would be a good contact for owners. Prove not to be the case, he worked out of Bromsgrove, now we believe Cornwall. There were so many really bad comments about him and his engines he is no longer to be found on the dealers links page!

John
SOS

[Adrian Dale]

Many thanks for the clarification John

AJ

[Oyster 49]

I got George to refurbish my SD magneto base plate with a new coil a couple of years ago. Decent job, but not cheap, fair price I thought. His coils are made with modern materials and will last longer than most of us I suspect.

I've also had quite a few bits from him, always responds quickly.

[John@sos]

Yes wish I had a 20 year warranty!
john
SOS

[Charles uk]

Oyster was your new coil the original size or the later smaller size with adapter collars.