Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

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Gannet
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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by Gannet » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:01 pm

David,
You have certainly collected a great deal of information. Thanks. As you indicate, there are two applications:-
1. Gear boxes.
It might well be possible to use a food grade mineral oil. Whether it is worth the trouble and the potential risk to the gears is a moot point. One important aspect is whether these oils will emulsify when water leaks into the gear box - this point may have been covered in the vast spec details that I don't understand.
2. 2 stroke oil.
Again is it worth the trouble in trying to find an alternative to the well established, widely available TC-W3 oil? (I know a lot of users swear by other oil specs).

Seagull owners all have their own individual interests, priorities and reasons for using and playing with these old outboards. However it might just be to all our advantage if the environmental issue of oil residue could be examined and possibly reduced. Of course, it's not an immediate issue, but I think it is well worth researching. It will only grow as an issue; in spite of the comparisons with other, and much greater sources of pollution.
Over to you, David!
Jeremy

andrew
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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by andrew » Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:17 pm

Did anyone ever try food grade 140w gear oil? I’d love to know if it would hold up for a full day on the water.

Any valid arguments against it if SAE rated?

Assuming I try it one day, is there any way I could tell after a bit of use (say 1 hour) if it is doing it’s job properly? Would look for emulsification of course, but not sure what else I would be able to tell from a quick visual inspection without stripping the gear box.

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Hugz
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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by Hugz » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:42 am

Example of food grade 140w engine oil please?

Found this, gentle reading: https://www.academia.edu/3807240/Viscos ... engine_oil

andrew
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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by andrew » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:50 pm

Here are a couple I found with a quick search:

https://www.crcindustries.com/products/ ... 04254.html

https://m.grainger.com/mobile/product/S ... tic-44N780

And this one has some helpful detail on the technical specs at the end of the document:

https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/156-276-td.pdf

Thanks!!

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Hugz
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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by Hugz » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:27 pm

Ah! That explains it. I thought we where talking about edible oil as in rice bran, canola, olive etc.

Are you planning on using your gearbox for smoothies after? Not sure where this is leading too unless you can obtain cheap or free. Be handy to know your inquiring philosophy. Less toxic to sea life? To be used on reservoirs supplying humans?

andrew
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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by andrew » Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:43 pm

My thought is that if I can be less toxic to sea life without compromising performance, then why not! But if it’s not going to hold up for a full day of running without changing oil, then it’s not for me.

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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by Pinger » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:36 pm

Perhaps I can help. Firstly, food grade and bio-degradable are not the same thing. Food grade isn't harmless to humans - it just stops short of killing you. The 'upset stomach' accruing from ingesting a food grade lubricant will leave you fearing being further than a 10 second sprint to a toilet... Food grade in essence is an industrial oil without the toxic additives usually found in industrial lubricants and then bleached to give a clear or white appearance.
Bio-degradable lubricants were initially vegetable oil based but problems with varnishing (higher temp applications - probably not applicable to BS gearboxes) and turning rancid. Later ones moved away vegetable oil and can be found in suppliers to golf courses and forestry concerns where spillage is a concern. Because of the high bio-degradation rates, a spill into water can suffocate marine organisms due to absorbing the available oxygen. For this reason, another lubricant company focuses less on the rate of degradation and more on the low toxicity of the ingredients.

Whether either can resist emulsification in water is down to the manufacturer's priority and capabilities. The ability to resist emulsification exists in industrial lubricants and if that stopped the oil being washed from the gearbox then that would be as 'green' a choice as any. If leakage is to be tolerated then a bio-degradable would be a 'greener' choice for low level/concentration leakages. Bear in mind though, that beneficial anti-wear additives will likely be absent as those used by most companies will be considered overly toxic for both food grade and bio-degradable products.

As for engine use - I wouldn't. The carbonisation effects are completely unknown, ditto wear resistance (in the absence of capable anti-wear additives). You could of course use castor based 2T oil (such as Castrol R) but most are happy to see the back of them - for good reason.
Be aware, ethanol is hygroscopic and prone to causing corrosion - hardly ideal in a boating environment.

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