Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

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david doyle
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Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by david doyle » Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:14 pm

I had been pondering on this and the below quote from another thread wrapped up the idea for me:
They say If these are unobtainable use a good quality SAE30 non detergent 'straight' mineral oil
When I was looking for SAE 140 gear oil I came across a purveyor of mineral oils for the food processing industry. For less money then auto parts store products they will sell you any SAE grade of "Food Safe" mineral oil, this is used in food processing machinery. availablel in 4 oz- 1 gallon and 55 gallon quantities.

So........ It would be possible to fill your leaky gear box, and mix your fuel with an oil which can be licked off the skeg! Pretty hard to say Seagulls are 'dirty' if the OEM specs can be achieved with Food Grade products that can be easily and cheaply obtained anywhere that food is processed.

If mineral oil disolved in Ethanol? could we run our seagulls on products that were 100% food safe (i.e moonshine and mineral oil)?

Don't get me wrong, as a biologist I know dam well that a few old outboards are not in anyway shape or form a signifigant threat to our environment but the idea tickles.

david
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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by david » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:04 pm

The green lobby always seem to miss the point that a 60 year old landrover doing 15 to the gallon will pollute kess than a new car doing 65 mpg.....the biggest pollution is when you build them...it takes around 200 tons of water (I could be wrong, but it will be more not less) to make a ton of steel. Add in all the other ccosts and it gets horrendous. Then think about hybrids...at 5 years old they need new batteres....there is your Prius's contribution to the well being of the planet stuffed.



Discuss

Horsley-Anarak
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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by Horsley-Anarak » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:33 pm

david wrote:The green lobby always seem to miss the point that a 60 year old landrover doing 15 to the gallon
Discuss
My 56 year old Landrover does 25/27 miles per gallon, does not need an MOT test, does not need road tax, has cheap insurance.

It also is increasing in value, rather than decreasing.

It now costs me less than £3 per week to use this legally on the roads in the UK, and it is painted green, how much greener can you get.

And it is great fun in the snow with a set of chains on, it sails past the £75,000.00 Range Rovers.

Seagulls are a very cheap way of having fun on the water,buy an engine for £50 and it will last for ever. The only problem is having to pay to use the water, I must retire to Canada as you have more than enough water to spare.

I want to live here.

Image

One of the thousand islands, makes the antipode look a little "chocolate box".

Looks horrid, imagine being bothered by all those large fish. :D

One day :roll:

H-A

david doyle
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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by david doyle » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:00 am

Well it is refreshing to hear that I am not the only one who understands that the best thing we can do for the environment is to drive an old truck and maintain it. Beyond the savings in manufacture impact there is one more crucial bit, that is if a guy goes and buys a new 30,000 dollar vehicle he needs to earn that money, the only way to make money is to use resources so the impact of new gear is double, the resources to build it and the resources to buy it. It was only last year that I finally gave up my LADA niva.

Nice to be in like minded company.

BTW yes there is lots of public water in Canada all seagull type folks are welcome to it!

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Hugz
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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by Hugz » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:56 am

My sixties transit van runs on lpg too.... :D
Last edited by Hugz on Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Collector Inspector
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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by Collector Inspector » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:34 am

Hugz wrote:My sixties transit van runs on lpg too.... :D
Hippy Vans always totally Cool.............anytime!

Also, if anyone is lucky enough to be using something "Old" there is no legislation anywhere to stop us using with the best of green intentions along the way. Local laws on any water mean things like catch cans under carbs and, lets face it, Basic Hygiene?

Green use and modifications can only be approved/supported aye?

There are some that insist on anal argument based on some form, held deeply inside from first education......personal/mental or social agenda however.

Bless them as they are NOT cracked (Letting in Any Light) and "Muddy Any Water" that us lot, like minded, enjoy.

"They" enjoy being somewhat ........Troll?

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david
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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by david » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:59 pm

I had a Transit with lpg from the factory as a car transporter...good piece of kit till it caught fire at 80 on the m11

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metalflake11
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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by metalflake11 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:22 am

Geat thread!....... I have 3 motorcycles, 1 car and 8 Seagulls. Not one of them is less than 30 years old and my stock in trade answers to 'greenies' are those already posted. Thankyou for making me re-think that the whole world has gone mad, and only I could see it! :D

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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by Collector Inspector » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:21 am

david wrote:I had a Transit with lpg from the factory as a car transporter...good piece of kit till it caught fire at 80 on the m11
Kind of topical in Perth at the moment. Our transport departments' buses are gas. They tend to catch fire all the time.

Funny in that they are painted Green............

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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by Collector Inspector » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:36 am

Donnelly River trip is on Wednesday so packing for it. Environmentally of course.........

My resident tinny has a 1974 OMC Fisherman as you all know so it will be bow ballast for Mutt and Jeff, first things packed for trip.

The Boyz!

02242013283.jpg
Fuel tap corks will be an issue for a few hours.................catch can and rag :)

Aside to the Boyz is that the Fisherman, while a nice motor is too young and gets bogged down two up. I have scored a NICE 1966 9.5 Sportwin........that will do the deed aye?

Pics and info of the river when I get back. 19Km one way. I want and believe that both of the Boyz will each do the up and down return in style.

:wink:

7 Daze, will be oarsome!

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Oyster 49
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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by Oyster 49 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:48 pm

I don't get this green lobby at times. Yes, electric cars are good in reducing pollution, but the hundreds of millions of tons that get pumped into the atmosphere in china every day is ignored.

Use your seagull with biodegradeable two stroke oil, adjust the mixture and catch any visible drips. Thats a clean engine!

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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by Collector Inspector » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:54 pm

China is a worry yes! You seen the latest news over the last three weeks?

Dark at Mid Day...........................

Poor Sods

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Gannet
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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by Gannet » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:04 pm

I am interested in this 'food grade oil'.
What exactly is it?
What is it called?
Where can one get it?
Is it just a matter of filling up the gearbox in the usual way but with SAE140 biodegradable? Is that its complete description?
What about adding it to the petrol. Why and how does the mixture need changing? Will there be lubrication problems?

Jeremy

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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by Collector Inspector » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:18 pm

Gannet wrote:I am interested in this 'food grade oil'.
What exactly is it?
What is it called?
Where can one get it?
Is it just a matter of filling up the gearbox in the usual way but with SAE140 biodegradable? Is that its complete description?
What about adding it to the petrol. Why and how does the mixture need changing? Will there be lubrication problems?

Jeremy
On my part, I would not consider. Lubricating base oils are there for a good reason. Pistons and stuff you know?

In a gearbox that leaks water........I would tend to shy away.

Interesting if any others have more detail on this of course.

Please be aware that there is a definite difference between "Green" and environmentally aware and "Clean".............remember what old Dears need to stay alive in your hands, there is some responsibility with that.

We do as we can.................even "Catch Can" aye?

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david doyle
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Re: Seagulls as the greenest motor on the water

Post by david doyle » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:25 pm

What exactly is it?
What is it called?
Where can one get it?
Is it just a matter of filling up the gearbox in the usual way but with SAE140 biodegradable? Is that its complete description?
What about adding it to the petrol. Why and how does the mixture need changing? Will there be lubrication problems?
Jermey:

First let me say, I am not an engineer and I know less about seagulls then 99% of the guys on here have forgotten. Basically the products that I am talking about are Mineral Oils designed specifically for gear boxes in food processing equipment. Available in all SAE wieghts. If you do an internet search for "food grade gear oil" you will see that it is a widely available product. After doing a bit of research I see no reason why you could not use Food Grade SAE 140 gear oil (mineral oil) in your gear box. You can easily confirm the application of it to your gear box box by comparing the manufacturers specs to "standard" SAE 140 mineral gear oil.

With regards to the mixing with petrol that I wont guess about. My gut tells me that it is possible BUT I would do some serious research first. At some point I will look into it as I dearly love the idea. If there was a way to mix mineral oil with ethanol I'd be applying tommorow for a permit to run a seagull on "protected" waters.



I have included the first product description that I came across below. For humor sake note that it is both GMO free and Kosher! I cannot find the site that originally spiked my interest but thier price list indicated 20 ish dollars a GALLON for SAE gear oils and they had maybe 50 different products/grades available. I would be surprised if they did not have something that would satisfy the Seagull specs for protection of crank bearings, rings, and cylinder walls. Confirming this would be a simple matter of looking at the ASTM specs of a "standard" marine 2 stroke mixing oil and finding a food grade mineral oil equivelant. At the very least did Seagull not say that a SAE 30 wiegh engine oil could be used in thier motors as a petrol mix? If so then comparing the specs of a 30 SAE motor oil to available Mineral oils likely would turn something up. If you did find something that you felt confident in then careful testing would obviously be in order.


PRODUCT INFORMATION
DESCRIPTION:
QUALITIES:
APPLICATIONS:
Clarion Food Machinery Gear Oils are designed specifically for use in food machinery worm gears, spur gears and valves. They are formulated with a high-purity white mineral oil and additive system for food processing applications. They are available in three ISO viscosity grades. They do not contain any natural products derived from animals, nuts or genetically modified organisms (GMOs). They are suitable for use where vegetarian and nut-free food is prepared.
Clarion Food Machinery Gear Oils meet the requirements of US Food and Drug Administration (US FDA) regulation 21 CFR 178.3570 for lubricants with the possibility of incidental contact with food for human consumption and are registered as NSF H1 lubricants (formerly USDA H1) for use in food processing plants under the jurisdiction of the US Department of Agriculture (USDA).
Clarion Food Machinery Gear Oils are certified as Kosher (passover) with the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America U .
They are colorless, odorless, tasteless, non-staining lubricants that provide excellent wear, rust and oxidation protection.
Clarion Food Machinery Gear Oils are general purpose lubricants for machinery that processes, packages or transports food for human consumption. These oils are recommended for use in food machinery worm gears, spur gears and valves.
Clarion Food Machinery Gear Oil 150 is recommended for lubrication of rotary can seaming machines equipped with a total loss system, such as those made by Angelus Sanitary Can Seaming Company.
Clarion Food Machinery Gear Oil 220 is certified under NSF/ANSI Standard 60: Drinking Water Treatment Chemicals—Health Effects and NSF/ANSI Standard 61: Drinking Water System Components—Health Effects, and is recommended as a lubricant for water well pump and other potable water system applications where an NSF/ANSI Standard 60 and/or Standard 61 certified product is required or desired.
Certified to NSF/ANSI Standard 60 and 61
(Continued)
C10172
CLARION® FOOD MACHINERY GEAR OILS
Date 03/12
Clarion Lubricants • 800/248-4684 • Houston, Texas • Made in USA
PRODUCT INFORMATION
CLARION® FOOD MACHINERY GEAR OILS
Date 03/12 - (Continued)
TYPICAL PROPERTIES:
ISO Grade
Material Code
Gravity, ASTM D 4052, ̊API Density, lbs/gallon Flash Point, COC, ASTM D 92, ̊C ( ̊F) Pour Point, ASTM D 97, ̊C ( ̊F) Viscosity, ASTM D 445, cSt at 140 ̊C Viscosity, ASTM D 445, cSt at 100 ̊C Viscosity Index, D 2270 Color Water Separation, ASTM D 1401 at 180°F Rust Test, ASTM D 665A Four-Ball Wear, ASTM D 4172,
Scar, mm at 20 Kg
Scar, mm at 40 Kg Oxidation Stability, ASTM D 943, hrs Kosher NSF Registered (Registration Number) NSF/ANSI Standard 60 Certified NSF/ANSI Standard 61 Certified FDA, 21CFR 178.3570
CLARION® FOOD MACHINERY GEAR OILS
150
633547009
30.3 7.28 238 (460) -7 (+19) 148 15.0 105 L0.5 40-38-2 (10) Pass
0.32 0.40 6000+
U H1 (139651) – – ✔
220
633546009
29.3 7.33 240 (464) -7 (+19) 220 18.8 105 L1.0 40-38-2 (10) Pass
0.34 0.44 6000+
U H1 (124623) ✔ ✔ ✔
460
633548009
28.9 7.35 242 (468) -7 (+19) 460 29.6 105 L1.0 40-39-1 (15) Pass
0.34 0.44 6000+
U H1 (124630) – – ✔
Clarion Lubricants • 800/248-4684 • Houston, Texas • Made in USA
C10172

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