Early Forty Minus

You can talk about almost anything here

Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo

User avatar
charlesp
Posts: 2566
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:37 pm
Location: Poole, Dorset, England

Early Forty Minus

Post by charlesp »

I've taken a few photos of SJM No 23. This motor is 'as it arrived' in most respects, there is work to do. But I reckon most of it is original.
P3032493.JPG
The most immediately noticeable difference is the brass tiller arm on a pressed and welded steel stub, attached to a very short cast lug on the crankcase. The grip is a 'Dover' component, I've seen a few like it. The throttle lever is the spindly type as found on FV, LS and these earlier SJm and SJP motors.
P3032496.JPG
The cast aluminium filler cap has the shorter 'ears' (Thanks for pointing these out, Art!) but I have no idea if it should have the longer ones. The difference isn't huge.
P3032502.JPG

The magneto baseplate has a half circumference flange around it, earlier ones had no flange at all. The points in the magneto are the conventional Villiers rather than the 'captive bolt' type - again I have no idea if they have been replaced. The photo above gives a good view of the short tiller attachment lug.
P3032492.JPG
Note in this photo the brass oil filler. (This component is the same item as the core plugs of earlier 102 blocks). You can see the round water inlet holes here, and the four leafed clover prop, which I think is very cute.

All in all it's quite a long way from the Featherweights of later years in detail. I don't know when the plastic 'cotton reels' disappeared from the bracket, but the aluminium thrust block half is I'm sure original. The motor has a steel head gasket. It has a plastic fuel pipe, too, but I don't know if that's original. The LS it replaced had a metal one.

This little chap has an 'In the World' cover plate and a flat plated brass top nut. It had no tank, sadly, when it arrived. So I'm not sure if it was the first model to bear the type temporarily fitted or if it had the slightly smaller one fitted to the LS. I need to check out what's on No 1, I suppose.

I hope that helps. Please excuse the very poor photos, not a good day for it...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Oyster 49
Posts: 3227
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:55 pm
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Early Forty Minus

Post by Oyster 49 »

SJM 218 I have just obtained is exactly the same 8) I also have the same "Dover" grip fitted to my SDP and this SJM.

Perhaps a month or two apart then circa 1955. I do like these 1950s engines :D
User avatar
charlesp
Posts: 2566
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:37 pm
Location: Poole, Dorset, England

Re: Early Forty Minus

Post by charlesp »

Quite so, Oyster. Before plastic had wormed its way into things, chrome plating of high quality, and a reassuring feel of 'fitness for purpose'.

Does yours have the half-circumference flange around the magneto baseplate? And does it have a tank with plain ends?
User avatar
Oyster 49
Posts: 3227
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:55 pm
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Early Forty Minus

Post by Oyster 49 »

Indeed it has, so based on the discussion here I suspect this engine is entirely original 8)

The leg and exhaust are poor, but other than that I suspect that a general clean up and service will get this engine running. The head bolts are countersunk cheese heads :cry: However 2 of them have already freed off :D

However I won't look at this one for a while, other projects to finish first.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
woodbutchergraham
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:52 pm
Location: Grimsby

Re: Early Forty Minus

Post by woodbutchergraham »

Nice on both acquisitions :D
Life is what you make it, and what you make could change your life.
User avatar
charlesp
Posts: 2566
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:37 pm
Location: Poole, Dorset, England

Re: Early Forty Minus

Post by charlesp »

Oyster can I just confirm that yours had a "Best Outboard Motor in the World" magneto cover?

If so, together with mine, we can start to firm up on the date of change to 'for' rather than 'in'.
User avatar
Oyster 49
Posts: 3227
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:55 pm
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Early Forty Minus

Post by Oyster 49 »

Hello Charles, yes it has the "In the world" magneto cover. Number is SJM218.
User avatar
charlesp
Posts: 2566
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:37 pm
Location: Poole, Dorset, England

Re: Early Forty Minus

Post by charlesp »

Excellent. Now if a few more of you out there can let us know if you have a 1955 (or maybe even a bit later) motor with a 'Best Outboard Motor in the World" magneto cover then possibly we can nail it down even more..
User avatar
Charles uk
Posts: 4831
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:38 pm
Location: Maidenhead Berks UK

Re: Early Forty Minus

Post by Charles uk »

Sorry I can't help you on this quest Charles, but I hope everybody understands that you are after the dates or engine numbers of any Seagull with an "in the world" flywheel cover, so that you can establish roughly when the change to "for the world" took place.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
User avatar
charlesp
Posts: 2566
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:37 pm
Location: Poole, Dorset, England

Re: Early Forty Minus

Post by charlesp »

Now that I have started thinking about these little chaps, I realise that while I've either got or have handled/photographed most of the early ones, ie F, FV, LS, SJM, SJP I have never come across an LM - the small version of the LS.

Has anyone out there got one?

They certainly weren't made for very long, and I'm sure I could make one up out of LS and FV bits, I would dearly like to see one.
User avatar
Oyster 49
Posts: 3227
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:55 pm
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Early Forty Minus

Post by Oyster 49 »

This one looks just like the engines discussed in this thread. Good price too..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/british-seagu ... 2ebc1b976d

Have asked about serial number and flywheel cover... :D
User avatar
mjn321
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:10 pm
Location: Caterham -Surrey

Re: Early Forty Minus

Post by mjn321 »

Have just purchased 40+ (SJP 7593) for £30 on ebay and this has a flat end tank and black painted tiller. (In the same family since 1958 when purchased new and only had occasional use)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280836938957? ... 500wt_1413

This has a flat end tank and black painted tiller. There are no Seagull markings on the block - originally would this have been painted black?... also the engine can turn 360 deg on the mount - is this correct?:-

Hope to start restoring it soon....

Malcolm
Keith.P
Posts: 2830
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:43 pm
Location: Hertfordshire
Contact:

Re: Early Forty Minus

Post by Keith.P »

It probably a brass tiller if its painted black, its not a 360 deg mount, I have never come across a seagull that can turn 360 deg, on a standard mount, its got something to do with the exhaust.
User avatar
PAULT50
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:25 pm
Location: Co.Down Northern Ireland

Re: Early Forty Minus

Post by PAULT50 »

I picked up thc63445 during the week with an "in the world" top plate
User avatar
Chicken
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:01 am
Location: Cambridge ,New Zealand

Re: Early Forty Minus

Post by Chicken »

An AC on trademe in NZ with an 'in the world' plate

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-m ... 618273.htm

its No.AC43465
33 RACING NZ
Post Reply