Decals again!

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charlesp
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Decals again!

Post by charlesp »

I had a phone call today enquiring about decals. The chap concerned has noticed some on eBay, and wondered if they were clopse to the originals.

The only ones I have seen that are very close to the originals are those supplied by John. These were the subject of quite a lot of detailed work and design and prototyping, and I am satisfied that they are probably as close as anyon'e going to get. They are very close indeed to the three unused originals that I have here, and to the original 1960 tank preserved in new condition by a chum of mine.

The only real difference is that the originals used a gum substrate that was soluble in dilute alcohol - which meant they wouldn't was off if they got wet. The new ones need a coat of protective lacquer; apparently the original glue isn't readily available.

The ones John supplies are the 'Sailorman' ones used on classic engines from the fifties unbtil the late seventies. He is attempting to have other types made, like the White Bird 1936 to 1949, and the smaller white bird 1949 to 1954.

There's one bloke on eBay selling 'fully serviced' Seagulls on the South Coast. Frequently these are adorned with a new decal - rather larger than the original with orange nlettering. It sticks out like a sore thumb.

So beware. This is the age of the anonymous Internet transaction. Accept no substitutes!
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John@sos
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Re: Decals again!

Post by John@sos »

Decals or transfers are difficult to get right.

I was fortunate to have a small number of the original Sailorman transfers so not only could I copy them exactly, but could also source the correct paper for the backing etc. The ones I sell are as near to the originals as possible.. They are applied the same way as the originals too, not floated off the paper to slide on, but applied direct to the tank and the backing soaked off.

We did find that over the years there were very slight differences to these transfers, we think because different companies competed to make these for Seagull. There is not a date when one or other was used, as they were seemingly dumped in bins to be used rather randomly. From the mid 50's to the 70's.

I am trying to get an exact copy of the 102 flying gull sorted, but again, there seem to be slightly different sizes. On the net I have seen some very rough transfers, quite wrong in size and colour. I won't sell these until i get it right.

Hopefully this year......

Regards,
John
SOS
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Charles uk
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Re: Decals again!

Post by Charles uk »

I'd agree with John & Charles, I saw a transfer on the back of a 102 on a boat, in a lock on the Thames at Marlow, this summer, that the owner had bought of Ebay.
He couldn't remember who he'd bought it from, but it was noticeably wrong from a distance!
I know I might be more critical than most as I've spent, together with John a lot of time researching this area, but after spending countless hours restoring your pride & joy, why would you finish it off with crap transfers!
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
seagullian
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Re: Decals again!

Post by seagullian »

I have made exact copies from a very good orginal and will send one to john to assess regards Ross New Zealand
thats the two bird ones and the marston ones
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John@sos
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Re: Decals again!

Post by John@sos »

Hello Ross,

That would be great, We have had all sorts of problems not only getting a good tanks to start with, but in copying and getting the proportions/size right! And don't even start on the colours, or which way the gull is looking!

Look forward to it,
Cheers,
John
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outboard
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Re: Decals again!

Post by outboard »

You guys are doing a great job trying to clock these rats. I recently bought a CD manual off ebay, fortunately I know my way around a computer to get the contents of the CD. As a newcomer I'd like to think I can get some old engines and get them restored, but I want the finished product to have genuine decals. Keep up the good work guys. No more ebay parts for me.

Gerard
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Collector Inspector
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Re: Decals again!

Post by Collector Inspector »

So Where did this Decal come from?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/British-Seagull- ... 1e5a099869

Regards

B
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others
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billyboy
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Re: Decals again!

Post by billyboy »

wouldnt know whether that is close to the original or not but i think it would look better on an oval tank with no straps
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charlesp
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Re: Decals again!

Post by charlesp »

That motor - the 102 on eBay in Australia - is a bit of alright on firsdt look.

Then you realise that the tanks is most probably a replacement or a replica. The decal is a good one - in fact I have never seen a 102 tank in perfect condition - but it's too good, the tank is too glossy, the straps a too bright. Remember this motor has been used, the vendor doesn't mention a complete rebuild, he just says he's had it a long time and it's only been used very little'

The carburettor has signs of wear, but oddly the tank (normally the most fragile bit) doesn't.

It's got the wrong transom bracket, wrong air intake (from a Silver Century), wrong paint on water pipe and block, and the crankcase has been repaired utilising an LS/SJM 'bent metal' tiller arm. And that's not all.

In other words it's not what it appears to be

The decal looks the right shape for a motor made 10 years earlier, the gold doesn't look right (may hbe the camera or the light) - don't know where it came from. It possibnlr is juat an extremely well preserved original. If it is its a shame it's on that motor....
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Collector Inspector
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Re: Decals again!

Post by Collector Inspector »

Hi Charles, I copied what is above to the seller just now, polite as always the B is............and got this reply.....

Obviously not one of us or HID is a real nag!

Regards

B



Subject: Re: alectraproject has sent a question about item #130359597161, ending on 27-Jan-10 15:58:59 AEDST - British Seagull 102 model, Received: 25-Jan-10
From: ringo38 Expires: 25-Jan-11
To: alectraproject
Item ID: 130359597161

eBay eBay sent this message to Bruce Guppy (alectraproject).
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more.
Seller has responded to your question about this item
Do not respond to the sender if this message requests that you complete the transaction outside eBay. This type of offer is against eBay policy, may be fraudulent, and is not covered by buyer protection programs. Learn More.

Dear alectraproject,

well fuck off then

- ringo38

Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply


British Seagull 102 model,
British Seagull 102 model,
Item Id: 130359597161
End time: 27-Jan-10 15:58:59 AEDST
Seller:

ringo38 (443)
100.0% Positive Feedback
Member since 23-Mar-04 in Australia
Location: Victoria, Australia
Listing Status: This message was sent while the listing was active.
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A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others
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billyboy
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Re: Decals again!

Post by billyboy »

well..................what do you think he meant by that?
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Collector Inspector
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Re: Decals again!

Post by Collector Inspector »

Maybe he is having a bad day or his listing sucks or maybe Charles just pissed him off without him even trying in this case.......

Bah! Bad Rubbish throw away!

B
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others
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charlesp
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Re: Decals again!

Post by charlesp »

You had better not tell him about the magneto cover being plain rather than printed with a logo, the braided fuel pipe, the thick pattern tank rings (1947), the painted filler cap etc.

Four hundred dollars eh?

Replying to an earlier point this particular tank decal was replaced by the smaller white bird one from 1949, although some were still being sold on 102s in 1953. It never appeared on oval tanks.
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Charles uk
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Re: Decals again!

Post by Charles uk »

Bruce if you need me to explain what he meant, I'd be only too pleased, as I know you Austrailians don't speek proper hinglish!
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
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Collector Inspector
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Re: Decals again!

Post by Collector Inspector »

Charles, just passed above along to seller................We wait for reply eh?

B
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others
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