Smoke. Muncie Neptune Vs Seagull

Post by **charlesp** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:56 am

'Polluting Outboard', hmm, I have thoughts about this. When compared to the cost (in environmental terms) of a new Mariner or Honda or whatever, the old outboard which has repaid its manufacture decades ago wins hands down. The very tiny amount of oil and smoke that escapes is a minor consideration.

I also have a theory - yet to be refined - that has found no favour with Jan, the lady who crewed for me up until recently and is the recycling officer for a local council. I reckon that pouring old oil onto the ground is inherently environmentally sound in this area (Poole Harbour), as it seeps naturally down aided by gravity until it rejoins the Purbeck Oil Field way down below the surface. I have a sample of the stuff they pump out of there, courtesy of BP, and guess what, it's the colour and consistency of 140 grade!

As I say, it's a theory that may need a bit of work.

Even Jan admired the impressive rainbow that surrounded my R19 when using a 40 Plus a couple of years ago with a stuck float chamber needle. Bless her she had the presence of mind to prevent me tossing a cigarette butt over the side...

The very best of Seagull political correctness is the 1932 advert that proclaims :

'So easy to start that even women can use it'

When I come out with this one in front of an audience the women are outraged as it's an affront to their feminist visions of equality.

The men in the audience are outraged at the extravagant advertising claim - they all know full well that women can't start an outboard...

Waggles · Post by **Waggles** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:22 am

Off topic a bit, but that last add reminded me of one that used to be on the wall of a long lost ( and lamented ) hostelry in Southend. It had a picture of a happy 1940's lady with vacuum cleaner with the line 'Men, don't let housework kill your wife, let electricity do it!'

I can here Mr Cholmondley - Warner...

Back on topic ( ish ) I with Charles, not only do modern motors cost the environment, but with built in obsolescence and ruthlessly cut spares supplies they make sure they will continue to. I recently obtained a new prop nut for a 1989 Mariner ( Yamaha ) and was told to take care of it as it was the last one they had and they are now unobtainable ( and made of plastic with a metal insert ....... )

rosbullterier · Post by **rosbullterier** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:47 pm

Ah . . .Japanese. . . .

I remember hearing Mike Hailwoods new Honda 6 cyl being revved up in the pits at Cadwell Park in the 60's. It was very small cc, sounded like a turbine.
We thought the aliens had landed with the coming of the yellow peril.

- and what did we have to compete; MV Augusta, Manx Norton, BSA Gold Star - collectors items

Such impeccable engineering - made with such work ethic. Treasure your new plastic nut with metal insert, service it regularly, use it as per the service manual; it will never go wrong . . .

Collector Inspector · Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:28 am

This has been Great!

Totally away off but really interesting!

I think that someone should start a "Politically Incorrect" topic with more of what has been included here!

Take Care

C.I.

Collector Inspector · Post by **Collector Inspector** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:29 pm

OH! YEH!

I had to re-doooo an old "Tube Vid as per one of my favo Pilots because of a Soundtrack Violalation. Sigh!

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=BRuMQd5Xb ... annel_page

Mike Runs Great!

C.I.

PS: Any body else got some vids or pics or anything?

Keith.P · Post by **Keith.P** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:15 pm

Collector Inspector, could i ask how you can tell the year of the pilot and why they seem to have a thin and a thicker leg on some. I have a pilot (thicker leg) and am also doing up a super single at the moment. anyway any web sites you could point me to would be helpful.

The seaking will end up in the bin, as it needs a lot done to it.

phil · Post by **phil** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:58 pm

Could you show a photo of your 3hp sea king? Just picked up a 1940 sea king/kiekhaefer 2.9 hp. Phil

Collector Inspector · Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:18 am

Pizey

Small Anzani engines, 60cc Pilots and Mermaids, have a casting mark under the transom plate swivel. It is actually the lower 1/2 of the crankcase where there are clamping fasteners to attachÃ© the leg/torque tube. All the same.

It is retained via a bloody circlip that when you snap it out of the track goes deformed somewhat so find another similar even if it is modern to retain the clamp assembly.

Obviously you have seen the vid with my comment to ask this question re Date.

The clamping holes usually obscure the casting numbers but at least the last two numbers should be legible.

These are the Year! 53 = 1953, 47 = 1947 etc.

How do I know this? Well have a few and I Surmise that:

In 1948-49, the heads stopped being water cooled (Dome Shape) and appeared with fins which was a cheaper and more efficient running casting anyway. The term is "Hot Head". My Leeds "Extra Long Shaft (Yacht Pilot) has 47 or 48, hard to remember as the last number and it has a fully water jacket domed head.

Mike the Pilot is later with a Hot Head like most still in existence. Its last number is 53.

I have others 52, 55 and 57. All Have Hotheads and stick legs.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=fSAU6sJVWI0 for your interest

I have not looked under clamp mount for one like yours with the bulky leg yet but next time I am at "That particular Shed" I will. I expect something like 60 on. I will let you know on this topic when I can.

I have limited Old Dears (8) to base this on so be somewhat circumspect with my opinion mate. There is absolutely NO information available other than my reasoning based apon-limited knowledge but at this stage appears to be correct.

The other question.............Oh Yeh, Super Single...

Early ones, after the acquisition of Sharland in 1949, up to say 1970, power heads were made by JAP. When JAP foundries went under, someone else did the castings for Anzani.

The Con Rod is the clue actually. When you have the barrel off for hone and new rings, you will probably see that â€œSomethingâ€

Keith.P · Post by **Keith.P** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:21 pm

Thanks for all your help and info, the super 5hp has the Amal with the plastic bottom, so thats not that old and the con-rod has not been ground, have pics with just numbers and letters on it.
The pilot has 0/19378/s on it, still none the wiser.
As for the seaking it has a broken prop, looks like a burned out coil, damaged exhaust and drive tube and a casing missing, and with parts hard to get hold of in the UK as it is a USA motor, its a bit of a lost cause.

woodbutchergraham · Post by **woodbutchergraham** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:20 pm

Quite agree not PC at all, a fantastic tread after the re name of spotted dick in the staff canteen to fruty Richard i have had just about as much of Political Corectness as i can coap with.
Thanks again every one for your comments its brightens up my sad little world.
only two more days of inspections to go !

rosbullterier · Post by **rosbullterier** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:36 pm

wbg - are you an English teacher?

Horsley-Anarak · Post by **Horsley-Anarak** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:51 pm

No could not coap with all the corecting

H-A

Collector Inspector · Post by **Collector Inspector** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:54 am

Sounds more like the engine number below the barrel, 0/19378/s.

Mikes is PPO/8734/S.

S is of course short, not Sport. Ha!

Or Have you actually slid the transom bracket down to the gearbox and read that number as I suggested between and around the torque tube fasteners?

You removed the circlip?

Regards

C.I.

Keith.P · Post by **Keith.P** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:49 pm

Found part of the number PO--67/1 i can only see the bottom half of the 6 it could be an 8, but more likely to be the six.
not that old.
On the 5hp whats in the gearbox oil or grease its hard to tell and for some strange reason the head has studs not bolts.

rosbullterier · Post by **rosbullterier** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:06 pm

At least all the techno mumble about Seagulls can be useful to us sad perverts. I have never seen, even reading back through all the old copy, such a load of unintelligible meaningless twaffle as above.

The engines certainly appear far superior to the Seagull, as the others in Collectors collection and I appreciate them. But hang on - my learning curve for the bloody Seagull has been steep over the last two years, and Anzani's etc are a bit beyond the remit!

Kindly start you own site before my eyes swim much more . . .

Saving Old Seagulls

Smoke. Muncie Neptune Vs Seagull

video

anzani

pilot