BMB Britannia coil fix?

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Russonz
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BMB Britannia coil fix?

Post by Russonz » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:58 am

I have recently acquired this Britannia.Iit has the prop forced water system and a 3 bladed prop with chromed gearbox. The coil is no good so is there some way of replacing/repairing it? Is this villiers ignition? Any help would be much appreciated. This is a cool motor and mechanically is in excellent condition.I am in the process of reproducing the decals which is a challenge but will have them done soon. If anybody wants the files to have them printed out let me know.
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Collector Inspector
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Re: BMB Britannia coil fix?

Post by Collector Inspector » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:01 am

Welcome aboard

Go here for your coil. http://www.villiersparts.co.uk/ignition.html

Pull yours out and measure it. I think it is the one in the centre of the page.

A phone call to confirm is a good idea.

May as well get the condensor as well as a precaution.

Interested in the decal.

Regards

BnC
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Re: BMB Britannia coil fix?

Post by Collector Inspector » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:36 am

OOPS!

Mk1 it is. The coil is a "special item" in that is internally double wound with individual ground tap.

There is no actual Villiers part number in the parts listing........

I suggest that you test the coil as per the owners manual........below.

20190630_112245_HDR.jpg
20190630_112240_HDR.jpg
Best of luck.

Regards

BnC[/color][/b]
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Russonz
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Re: BMB Britannia coil fix?

Post by Russonz » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:52 am

Thanks very much for that. So I can connect both plug leads to the output and it will be ok? I have read some posts claiming that doesn't work very well and others who say it does. You say to get the condensor as well. There isn't one in the original magneto setup so do I need one with the different coil? Regarding decals, I will let you know when I have finished the artwork. Some of it is going to be guesswork but I am trying to make it original as possible. Here's one I did for my Anzani Super single. I had quite a good one to work from on the tank before restoration.
Anzani2 small.jpeg
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Collector Inspector
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Re: BMB Britannia coil fix?

Post by Collector Inspector » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:33 am

Condensor under points. Remove the points housing.

Single outlet coil OK for running in a test tank only. It will smoke if used on a transom.

20190630_122513_HDR.jpg


BnC[/color][/b]
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Charles uk
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Re: BMB Britannia coil fix?

Post by Charles uk » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:43 am

Bruce wasn't the MK1 coil the funny one spark coil, that a single spark went down one plug & up the other?
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

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Re: BMB Britannia coil fix?

Post by Collector Inspector » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:11 am

Yes Charles

Somehow I could not actually say how it is as well as that.

Perfect description.

BnC
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Oyster 49
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Re: BMB Britannia coil fix?

Post by Oyster 49 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:50 am

That’s a villiers mark 1 magneto, with a dual output coil. So the coil fires 2 HT leads at the same time. This coil is not available I’m afraid. I found a NOS for a similar engine I rebuilt a few years ago, that was the last one that particular seller had.

However the single output coils are available (as fitted to early seagulls) from villiers parts, I suspect you can fit a single output coil, and connect both HT leads to the single output.

The only other option would be to try and find a specialist who could rewind the original coil, worth a shot I think, there are several outfits that do this, but this is a very rare coil, so risky.

I’ve got one of these coils that has also failed, and another engine that needs looking at, so potentially 3 coils that need doing.

Ferrier120
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Re: BMB Britannia coil fix?

Post by Ferrier120 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:02 pm

The coil is sometimes referred to as a Villiers 'Twin Spark' , I've found a label on one which gives it the number 1042 x 4E. Tried one of the Villiers spares companies a couple of years back who quoted, I think, £85 +vat to rewind one.

Many years ago I tried using a Seagull coil with a soldered on brass strip to reach both pick-ups, but wasn't successful as it ran unevenly for a few seconds before stopping as it was only firing on one cylinder - someone suggested that a spark will always take the shortest possible route, so unless everything is equal, it will only spark on one side.

I have a motor with partial decals if it helps.
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Charles uk
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Re: BMB Britannia coil fix?

Post by Charles uk » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:10 pm

I think that the Mk1 BMB had a two bladed prop with a cooling water scoop & Lucas ignition that fires the spark down one HT lead through the first spark plug the across the motor via the cylinders & crankcase the up through the second plug up the HT lead & back to the coil.

The Mk 2 BMB had the Villiers ignition & a 3 bladed prop.


Try removing one plug from the loop to see if the second will fire on it's own.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

wbeaton
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Re: BMB Britannia coil fix?

Post by wbeaton » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:48 pm

Wow, that is a crazy ignition. Do you know the dimensions of the laminate that goes through the coil? You may be able to adapt another coil to it. I would also be very interested in Britannia decals.

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AusAnzani
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Re: BMB Britannia coil fix?

Post by AusAnzani » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:58 am

Hello Russonz, I would be interested in copies of the Anzani and Britannia decal artworks if available please. I will provide my email address via pm to you.

I had a go at reproducing the one pictured by Ferrier, but didn't have a good enough quality original to work from so gave up on it.

Regards,
S

Russonz
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Re: BMB Britannia coil fix?

Post by Russonz » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:47 am

This is where I have got to so far with the decals. Still not totally happy but getting close I think. More work on the waves needed. If anyone can supply a photo of the side tank that shows the T in Twin reasonably clearly it would be much appreciated.
tank side.png
Tank front.png
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AusAnzani
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Re: BMB Britannia coil fix?

Post by AusAnzani » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:57 am

Well, you seem to have got as far as I did. I has to free hand quite a bit, and also wasn't sure of many of the colors.

For the water, i just used an image instead of trying to recreate what was there. Also, I (and you) are yet to put in the boat which sits somewhat around and around the 'rules the waves' text. Due to the lack of quality, the boat is not visible in the image posted by Ferrier, but if you look closely, you can see where the bow separates the water.

The same boat and water patterns also appear on the BMB letter-head.

I'd be interested to knoiw what drawing package you're using. I do all my stuff in Microsoft Powerpoint which is very cumbersome and limited. I also can't achieve the high resolution that's needed for printing of these things.
Brit Light Twin 1.JPG
here you can see I began tracing the boat image from the letter-head - working with a red pen.
Brit Light Twin 3.JPG
I had a real hard time with the text, particularly the T in Twin as I didn't really have anything to work with there.
Brit Light Twin 2.JPG
All in all, I found it a very complicated decal set to reproduce, and clearly still not there yet.

Regards,
Spiro
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AusAnzani
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Re: BMB Britannia coil fix?

Post by AusAnzani » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:06 am

In case it helps
Britannia Light Twin 4.JPG
Regards,
Spiro
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