Bermuda RISR 18th June 2011

Racing a Seagull? Got an event planned? Race announcements, results, mods and the boats here

Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo

Horsley-Anarak
Posts: 2838
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: Surrey

Re: Bermuda RISR 18th June 2011

Post by Horsley-Anarak »

How fast ?

Looks like it is going well for a short hull.

H-A
doppler491
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:31 pm
Location: bermuda

Re: Bermuda RISR 18th June 2011

Post by doppler491 »

With two adults it'll do a little over 11 knots and just shy of 6000rpm. Hull is 15'11". It's not the fastest Century combo either...
User avatar
Chicken
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:01 am
Location: Cambridge ,New Zealand

Re: Bermuda RISR 18th June 2011

Post by Chicken »

Any plans or mesurments?
33 RACING NZ
User avatar
Chicken
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:01 am
Location: Cambridge ,New Zealand

Re: Bermuda RISR 18th June 2011

Post by Chicken »

Any plans or mesurments?
33 RACING NZ
Horsley-Anarak
Posts: 2838
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: Surrey

Re: Bermuda RISR 18th June 2011

Post by Horsley-Anarak »

berm 15.jpg
Made a card model

Needs to be a little longer to have better proportions.

Also top chine needs a little more taper.

I can see why this hull would go well.

Have got some spare ply. :wink:

H-A
User avatar
Charles uk
Posts: 4951
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:38 pm
Location: Maidenhead Berks UK

Re: Bermuda RISR 18th June 2011

Post by Charles uk »

I've always had the view that if you copy something exactly without adding some of your own input the best you can achieve is exactly the same result as the original!

Put some H-A into it.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
User avatar
The Tinker
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:18 am
Location: Whangamata, New Zealand

Re: Bermuda RISR 18th June 2011

Post by The Tinker »

Card models all very well, very different when plywood comes out
Horsley-Anarak
Posts: 2838
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: Surrey

Re: Bermuda RISR 18th June 2011

Post by Horsley-Anarak »

The Tinker wrote:Card models all very well, very different when plywood comes out
Not very different at all.

I am reading a book at the moment by "Weston Farmer" that has three chapters on cardboard flotation models.

A scale hull react very much like the real thing, and I believe that test tanks are still used today.

If it works in card, then it is very easy to scale up to full size.

I have done this twice, and the full sized versions work well.

H-A

P.S. The book also has a section on fast hulls for low power. :wink:
doppler491
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:31 pm
Location: bermuda

Re: Bermuda RISR 18th June 2011

Post by doppler491 »

Build a card copy of a real Bermuda hull...use it as inspiration! Don't completely deck it in though - he can't move in order to optimize weight distribution.

Image
Image
User avatar
Charles uk
Posts: 4951
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:38 pm
Location: Maidenhead Berks UK

Re: Bermuda RISR 18th June 2011

Post by Charles uk »

So 80+ lbs lighter, 10 foot longer, custom made prop, on a very calm day & who knows how many $, to shave 3 minutes off the existing record makes this a "real Bermuda hull".

Do you need time to think about this.

But it is a very nice looking hull, Well Done JJ!

Now I'll have to get on a bloody plane to see if I can get it back.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Horsley-Anarak
Posts: 2838
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: Surrey

Re: Bermuda RISR 18th June 2011

Post by Horsley-Anarak »

Charles uk wrote:Now I'll have to get on a bloody plane to see if I can get it back.
On a plane, or on "the" plane. That is the question.

Is there a chance of going short and fast, or are the waves too big.

There must be a limit to a length that is viable; semi displacement must be valid.

Also as hull weight is directly proportional to length, is there a point at which additional length adds little to speed.

Or will there be a Bermudan 48 foot boat powered by two seagull Sports?

H-A
doppler491
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:31 pm
Location: bermuda

Re: Bermuda RISR 18th June 2011

Post by doppler491 »

Horsley-Anarak wrote:
Is there a chance of going short and fast, or are the waves too big.

There must be a limit to a length that is viable; semi displacement must be valid.

Also as hull weight is directly proportional to length, is there a point at which additional length adds little to speed.

H-A
Two people have to go per boat so short and fast might not end up being that fast..! There's a pic somewhere online of Charles in a little purple hull. Ask him how it turned out...from what I remember it went pretty good but you might need to hope for calm water.

30' is about where you want to be. Any longer and you don't gain much/any at all...
Pirate Pete
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:48 pm
Location: New Zealand

A "Legless tale" - the lost diaries: The night before

Post by Pirate Pete »

Re-capping. The kiwi contingent of myself (Pirate Pete) and the Ancient one flew to Bermuda under clouds of volcanic ash, leaving Canterbury earthquakes behinds us. We were shaken and stirred with a marathon flying effort from Wellington, NZ to Sydney, Australia; then onto San Francisco, across US of A to an overnight in New York; then a flight next day to Bermuda. But despite being just a tad travel weary, we were delighted to reach the Balmy, rum-laced shores of Bermuda with its singing frogs and huge adventures in good time for the RISR 2011.

Day one was spent launching the good ship and race boat Legless a beautifully restored 74-odd year old Bermuda fishing dinghy.

Day two was spent walking the dog, pulling the race motor, a vintage 1945 '102' classic British Seagull motor that we had used way back in 2007 to its component pieces. I managed little more than to clean the carb and points, fit a new spark plug and 'fire up' the motor in air to see if it would go. The motor responded promisingly to my engineering administrations and roared very positively into life. It would have been good to fit the motor to the boat and check trim and give it a good run (I would have been happy to see a good flow of water from the 'tell tale' that would confirm that the water galleries in the head were free and flowing). But the test was enough to convince me that we were almost certainly good to go.

With the trial start up being so promising, it seemed best to work on much more important race preparations:Procuring a goodly supply of pre-; during-; and Post-racing celebratory drinks (especially because the RISR coincided with a long weekend Bermuda Holiday and the shops would be shut). Most of the necessary supplies were secured at the local supermarket. Unfortunately ... or should that read fortunately there was no chance of getting a good supply of Pimms which makes a most refreshing and suitable RISR race drink [coincidentally Pimms was the much published, but completely maligned downfall of my 2007 post race RISR performance - heat and the very fine hospitality of Lobster had some small part to play in that).

Victualing sorted, the next task was to hunt down a supply of the "good oil" and sufficient fuel to complete the race. The only petrol station still open was well patronised that involved a long wait in a big queue to pick up some "good oil", about 20 liters of petrol and a couple bags of ice [Ice is very important to Bermudians and the quantity and quality are very important to any endeavor there and contemplating the RISR with out bags of ice was an unthinkable crime].

Next stop was at the Mill Creek Seagull racing Epicenter to pick the brains of Seagull outboard motor legend 'Charlie Brown' . I had noted that the throttle slide 'piston' of our vintage 102 race motor, didn't seem to be giving me full throttle. I suspected that the carb had been fitted with the 'wrong' slide piston. 'Charlie Brown' could neither confirm nor deny that the 'wrong' throttle slide piston could be an issue. But he generously spent considerable time digging around among his spare parts and came up with a slide piston that was indeed shorter ... and fitted.

Criminey, I was ecstatic, that simple pre-race adjustment theoretically had just gifted me a 20% increase in power. "Good on ya mate".

The evening was looking good. Bruce Lorhan was keeping me safe from the infamous hospitality of the mesmerizing lobster. I was celebrating the eve of the momentous occasion in fine RISR racing company and a most sobering fashion - I was careful to stick to mini-Heinekens (they seem to have released stubby-sized stubbies of Heineken ... I don't entirely approve, but liked to think the mini-stubbies were helping to promote moderation). I think it was midnight, but my 'Paparazi Pete' camera seems to indicate that maybe we made a stop off to where Legless was moored to make some pre-race preparations in the very dark before going home for a late tea, late night visitors and a late night ... ready for an early morning race start.

The RISR race day stage was set. bring it on! Surprisingly, despite it being a couple of busy and long days, I was like a kid on the night before Christmas and don't think I slept very much .... just too darn excited.

Picture, spots of threatening rain that only achieved enough to get the frogs momentarily excited and ruin my photograph of a pre-race Mill creek party in swing.
Attachments
Mill Creek prerace midnight.jpg
Pirate Pete
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:48 pm
Location: New Zealand

A "Legless tale" - the lost diaries: The race to the start l

Post by Pirate Pete »

Sometimes getting to the start line is the hardest part of the race. Being on that start line can be the culmination of years of planning, saving, designing, building race boats, working on motors, testing, travelling and all the the many little things that need to make it happen. All these steps can be fraught with problems and much can go wrong.

Then, the weather conditions on Race Day can ruin the best laid plans of men and the whole race could be called off.

However, the RISR 2011 race day dawned on a Capital C 'Craker' of a day. It would have been good to be alive anywhere, but being alive on RISR race day in Bermuda with a boat, race motor and crew .... took the cake!

First glimpse of the 'sea state' on the way from Orange Valley to where race boat 'Legless' lay ..... was breathtaking. The Bermuda Marine forecast had been for winds less than 5 knots and seas "nearly" 1 foot. - Come on Marine Forecast guys, it was always going to be flat asss calm, even for the Atlantic. Sure enough the mirror calm North Shore seas merged with the slightly hazy sky somewhere at infinity in an undetectable horizon. [Don't try taking a sextant fix on that folks].

International 'Team Legless' of Notman and Notman [New Zealand] and Luce [Mexico] were a bit behind a tight schedule to make it to the start line. A late night and a leisurely breakfast sort of ate up time and before we knew it, we were getting well behind the eight ball. I wasn't too fazed, because with the 'good oil', the ancient 102 seagull with the 'correct' throttle piston was surely capable of making up any lost time. With our very own (Bruce's) support boat towing the good raceboat 'Legless' like an Americas Cup racing Yacht, it started to look like we might just make the 0830 hrs class race start after all ... but it would be just in 'the nick of the time'.

The journey across the Great Sound was spectacular in the calm morning. Our journey was punctuated by several boats going out of their way to admire 'Legless' in all her shiney varnished and painted glory. High flattery indeed!

With the clock ticking down, we managed to swoop into Mangrove Bay and present ourselves at the Sandy's Boat club start line with 5 minutes to spare.

Photo: The 'nearly' 1 foot sea state on our tow to the start line across a very calm Great Sound, Bermuda. The RISR race course is simply to circumnavigate the Dominion of Bermuda keeping the land on your left and the sea monsters to the right. There is a dip into the Great Sound from Spanish Point to a mark just off Long Island [about where the photo was taken] then round Dockyards Point back to the Start/Finish at Sandy's Boat club, Mangrove Bay. The dip is out of respect to the days when the race started from the Anfossi Holiday home and starts from Spanish Point. ... The course specifically states no cheating by taking 'sneaking under bridges' short cuts.

On our run to the finish at the end of the day, the good race boat 'Legless' with its' multi-national crew was slowly but steadily mowing down a couple of chicks in a seagull race boat. It had pretty much taken us all of the Run down North Shore to close the gap. But it was looking very much like the glorious 'pass' was going to happen soon after rounding the mark at Long Island. But the chicks were either cheating [Hey, that is almost the honorable thing to be doing when seagull racing in Bermuda]; had had enough of a long day seagull motoring and just wanted to get home; or didn't want to be passed by Legless crewed by a team of internationals. For what ever reason, they headed straight for the Watford Bridge and as our courses got further and further apart (like ships in the night) they held their course. That left 'Seagullize it' and Legless to punch on the legitimate course taking us around the Dockyards and back to an honorable finish at Sandy's Boat club, Mangrove Bay.
Attachments
Bermuda Great Sound on a calm day.jpg
Pirate Pete
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:48 pm
Location: New Zealand

A "Legless tale" - the lost diaries: The worst possible star

Post by Pirate Pete »

A "Legless tale" - the lost diaries: The worst possible start

Team Legless arrived at the start line with a florish, complete with our own support boat and with great expectations ... but with less than 5 minutes to spare before the 'gun'. A little snobbish really, one really ought stand around on shore with quiet confidence, taking in the ambiance, talking to the other contestants or at the very least, trade a few 'sledges' (i.e. "the boat and motor are going particularly well today, we hit 7 knots on the way over .... and that was with the motor at idle" etc. etc. etc.).

Instead, I was spending the last minutes before race start bobbing around the briney, head down over the back of the boat, frantically but very, very, carefully (because we were in 10 feet of water and it would not go well if I dropped the nut) unbolting the "thrust block" adjustment bolt and locking in a tilt that left the Vintage 102 seagull delivering all its thrust at the perfect angle. While I was doing that, the multi-national crew were transferring over to 'Legless' from the support boat, along with a mountain of ice, fine victuals and just enough beverages to stave off dehydration, scurvy and sober conversations.

The start gun/wave of the flag went off.

We were ready, all I had to do was pull the start cord and we would be off. I pulled the start cord and .... nothing happened. A desperate rewind of the cord, frantic fiddling with the carb 'float tickler', adjusting the throttle setting and tinkering with the clutch lever .... still nothing happened.

The other boats moved across and off the start line on their way around the RISR.

Another start up procedure .. but this time with much more frantic fiddling and heaving on the starting cord. This time the finely tuned race motor fired and revved up in the most satisfying and positive way. Great, here ... we ... goooo!!! Down with the clutch lever and the throaty roar died away to an asthmatic tink tink tink. We were moving ...forward ... but barely and certainly not at the great rate that I had hoped for or expected. It was, however, enough to get us over the line. It was official International Team Legless had started the RISR 2011!!

Bruce in the support boat noted that "there is heaps [of petrol] spurting out [the air intake of the carb]". At the time I was completely focused on the tell tale that would indicate that the galleries were open enough to let some cooling water circulate and that the motor could run without seizing ... there was a pretty weak stream of water coming out of the tell tale (not exactly what I would have described as "heaps" or "spurting out" as I thought Bruce was talking about), but it was enough to mean that we could carry on. At the time, with the barely more than idle revs that we were experiencing, 'over heating' was going to be the least of our worries.

Bruce and an excited International crew on the good ship 'Legless' finally got the message through that the carb was spewing petrol out of its intake. Aside from international ecological implications, it was coming out at a rate that would waste most of our fuel supply before we had got halfway down the South Shore!

The motor stopped.

We had covered about 50 m of the 46 nautical mile race.

It was hot.

The problem???? I didn't know at the time. So I removed the u-beaut short throttle slide piston and replaced it with the original. Restarted and the motor which asthmatically moved us another 50m along the course before stalling. Next thing to do was to strip the carb ... about 5 times, making every possible adjustment [there actually aren't any] with the float and float needle or anything. After each re-assembly and re-start, we would splutter another 50 m, but each time our 'flooding', and fuel out of the carb intake issues and our 'pour' performance wasn't resolved.

I was sweating profusely from the frantic engineering tear downs and hauling on the start cord. Plus it was windless and 'hot as' ... which wasn't helping.

Bruce headed off in the support boat back to Sandy's Yacht Club, making phone calls to as many experts as possible to try and track down and nail our nasty little engine gremlin or at least find some spare parts or even motor.

While he was away, I got a few more carb tear-downs, faltering starts and 50 m gains. By this time we had at least made enough progress to get around the corner of Mangrove Bay.

Bruce finally roared back in the support boat. He had met up with Corey (known from such movies as LOOK TV Seagull racing around Bermuda) had sprinted off and got his spare carb at the expense of almost missing out on his own start. The 'spare carb' looked worse for wear, but Corey had advised Bruce "that it had run on his motor, yesterday ... it was good". We exchanged my carefully cleaned carb for Coreys, adjusted the spark plug gap and ..... the bloody motor fired up and ran without coming close to stopping for the rest of the day.

Grrrrrrrrrrr. The fractious motor was probably old enough to be the very motor that Steinbeck wrote so venemously about in the opening chapters of "The log from the sea of Cortez". However, Coreys new carb seemed to have frightened our race motor into action and put the 'gremlin to bed'.

Finally we were on our way .... I had one of the sponsors [Heineken] finest cold ones to cool off and celebrate having come halfway around the world to almost DNF within the first 300 m.

Talking to various experts afterwards about our baffling engine problem ... the motor is venerable and has been well thrashed being the veteran of numerous successful RISR races. The rings and bore were probably pretty worn and slack. That was the best explanation of why petrol might be spat out of the carb intake. What probably had happened was that the intermittent starts and 50 m dashes eventually warmed the motor up enough to take up the slack. Whatever happened, Coreys Carb was the 'Straw' that seemed to make the difference and Team Legless are indebted to his generous and selfless offer.

We owe you one ... or two ... or three, Corey. Cheers.

Picture
The fractious motor that turned a glorious start into a desperate demonstration of on the water engine stripping and re-assembling and sweaty frustration. But at the end of the day, it came through and pushed Team Legless over 46 nautical miles around the dominion of Bermuda without stopping ... happy with that.
Attachments
Race motor.jpg
Post Reply