Hi, just had a look at the results.
The speed results must be speed over ground, boat speed plus river speed.
How fast is the river?
Also can someone post the full specs fot the "International Bermudan class".
Are the class rules set in stone? I don't want to build one and then find it has all been changed.
I did notice in the results that the 4.5 hp stock had a better time than the modified. Is this just down to good hull design?
Thanks
H-A
waikato river seagull race
Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo
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Horsley-Anarak
- Posts: 2838
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:42 pm
- Location: Surrey
Re: waikato river seagull race
These are the class rules from the waikato river page at http://www.seagulloutboard.com/1_10_Waikato-River.html
New Bermudian Class: mono hull, minimum length 12 ft, max 20ft, one bow, no outriggers, two persons onboard with minimum combined weight of 150 kg, spare seagull engine can be used to make up weight, standard engine, no modifications, models 102, century and silver century, prop modifications allowed using seagull props, cavitation plate allowed.
Yes it is down to good hull design.the 4.5mod time was set with a porta boat and standard engine. the dingy tim was set with custom race boat with standard engine.
New Bermudian Class: mono hull, minimum length 12 ft, max 20ft, one bow, no outriggers, two persons onboard with minimum combined weight of 150 kg, spare seagull engine can be used to make up weight, standard engine, no modifications, models 102, century and silver century, prop modifications allowed using seagull props, cavitation plate allowed.
Yes it is down to good hull design.the 4.5mod time was set with a porta boat and standard engine. the dingy tim was set with custom race boat with standard engine.
33 RACING NZ
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Charles uk
- Posts: 4954
- Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:38 pm
- Location: Maidenhead Berks UK
Re: waikato river seagull race
Chicken didn't a couple of rule changes happen just before the race this Easter I've lost the Emails, I don't think Rex's copy of the rules include the changes.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Re: waikato river seagull race
Im not sure would be best to check with rex or john crighton.
33 RACING NZ
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The Tinker
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:18 am
- Location: Whangamata, New Zealand
Re: waikato river seagull race
HA, It is worth looking at old power boat designs to see how they go there boats to go fast with relatively low power slow turning engines, and then combine those with the features you need to go fast in modern times, make your boat 20 foot long and then you have a new Bermudan. Our boats are built to be used for other things as well as the great race.
Re: waikato river seagull race
Hello All
I've checked the website published rules with the officials & they stand correct.
The river flows at say 1kt ~ 1.5kts
Interesting the close times of the modified vs standard this year. Shows lots of opportunity for engine modification. I'd expect the modified time to drop a little next year.
The 4.5hp dinghy record was broken with a very clever & lightweight planing hull. Quite an achievement.
John Crighton has the master plans for the bermudan flea hull. Email; sandspitmotor@xtra.co.nz
Rex
I've checked the website published rules with the officials & they stand correct.
The river flows at say 1kt ~ 1.5kts
Interesting the close times of the modified vs standard this year. Shows lots of opportunity for engine modification. I'd expect the modified time to drop a little next year.
The 4.5hp dinghy record was broken with a very clever & lightweight planing hull. Quite an achievement.
John Crighton has the master plans for the bermudan flea hull. Email; sandspitmotor@xtra.co.nz
Rex
Re: waikato river seagull race
As others have remarked further up the thread, the 2011 race was a purler.
My first Seagull racing experience was not without its difficulties and frustrations, but most of these were solved thanks to ingenuity and downright excellent Kiwi hospitality.
I spent the week prior to Easter camped at Karapiro Domain (campground) where, for the princely sum of NZ$12.50/night I had access to a fully equipped kitchen, laundry with washer and drier, showers, and a large lake - Seagull testing, for the use of.
The boat lent me by Raoul Lealand was the small red R-Series sailboat that appears in Pirate Pete's pics, usually complete with it's 'locally sourced' bamboo mast and Aussie boxing kangaroo flag. I spent much time running up and down the hill to Don Short's workshop where, ably assisted by his son Nathan, I constructed the 'BBQ box' which you can see in the race photos, which was designed to contain a single-burner butane-powered camp stove (the type that comes in a plastic briefcase) and which was also used to brew up a billy of tea. I even advertised the fact that I was making 'sausage sangers' but as no-one was able to catch me to take advantage of this FREE offer, I had to eat them all myself.
The boat was pretty quick with the Ross Leger-supplied Silver Century Plus 'race motor', complete with large anti-cav plate - about 12km/h fully loaded with 40L of fuel, BBQ, Esky/chilly bin and my lard-arsed 120kg self. Probably do 15-17 with someone smaller and lighter. LOL.
Set off last in class on Day One, as I was clambering over rocks trying to get photos of the start, which I later discovered didn't turn out because I'd not set the camera up to reduce the 'puffing and blowing like whale' shakes caused by too much unfamiliar exertion. Doh. Anyway, got away eventually and, after lapping the pool to get myself settled in the cut-down driver's seat, I approached the rapids and the upper gorges with some trepidation and very little control over the boat. Having no keel and an almost flat underside, and little power to counter-act it, I was at the mercy of the whirlpools, rapids and the current, which was adding an estimated 8km/h to my already momentous speed through the water.
What little I saw of the upper Waikato was very interesting, and utterly beautiful - slowly rising morning mist hiding the top of the gorge from view, the sheer rock walls a plethora of fern species and hardy waterside flora.
Having been properly coached by various well-meaning Kiwis, I was well armed to avoid all the snags, rock shelves, and danger spots, and managed to get through to Hamilton with loss of neither life, limb, or motor. Alas the same could not be said for the stretch between Huntly and Rangariro, at the end of the day. In the meantime, the Aussie 'flagship', "Y Worry" proceeded at pace down the Mighty River (which is its apparent translation from Maori). Waving madly at shore-bound onlookers through Hamilton, we motored north-ish with barely a pause.
Well, there were a couple, actually.
The first was caused by brain malfunction. I had been told repeatedly to time the motor's consumption of fuel, so I would know when to 'pump' from the large main tank up into the little Seagull tank atop the motor. Forgot, didn't I? A brief drop in revs, a couple of splutters, and an almost apologetic cough, and we were adrift - unpowered, and heading rapidly downstream - sideways. I twigged the cause immediately, pumped like mad, crawled into the stern, performed the 'Seagull Starting Ritual', and away we went again.
Having overtaken the only other sailboat, piloted by Grandad Norm and Grandson Nathan Short, for the second time - we were about 0.5km/hr quicker, so the term 'overtake' is used somewhat lightly - we continued merrily on our way until, without any warning, the Big Block Race Motor died again. This time it was serious. I checked fuel - plenty. Having a spare plug aboard (thank you Repco at Matamata) I determined to check this, but, not game to attempt this leaning over the stern, had first to haul the motor inboard.
It was here that the vagaries and ancillaries of the 'race' motor, against a standard motor, made themselves felt. Firstly I had to remove the 2.5miles of gaffa tape holding the remote-steering gear's plug into the end of the tiller. Then I had to disentangle the tiller cables from the main fuel line to the front-mounted main tank (balancing the trim, you see), and disconnect the remote telltale from its fitting on the block, and finally, after disconnecting the main fuel line, pull the R-clip from the transom locking pin and haul the motor inboard.
It took longer to do than to write about. Finally, with the plug removed, and large carbon deposits a possible culprit, the new plug was sourced from the bottom of the dilly bag of tools and spares. Damn. It hadn't been gapped properly. Fortunately, with Don Short's foresight (love that man) he had included a small 0.020 feeler gauge in the tool kit, so I was able to regap the new plug, insert it, and reverse the previously described engine removal process. Thankfully, after completing the Seagull Starting Ritual, the blessed motor fired first pull, and we were off and chasing the Short's sailboat, once again.
With no chance of catching them, they had a 20min lead by this time, we followed our instructions and kept close to the bank where the deeper water is, carefully crossing over from outer bank to outer bank on the bends to avoid the shallows on the inside of the bends. A few miles further on, somehwere near Huntly, about 8 miles from the halfway point and camp at Rangariro, an odd vibration and 'rattling' noise made itself heard, marring the previously rhythmic cadence of the blattering Seagull exhaust note.
While we puzzled over this, wondering whether or not the noise had been there before or not, and trying to decide whether or not it was worth stopping (again) and losing more time, when in fact the motor was clearly still running, those sneaky little 'hold the gearbox onto the leg screws' were quietly jiggling themselves looser, and looser.......
Finally, deciding that the now apparent vibration and noise had NOT, in fact, been there before and were, in fact, getting notieably worse by the minute, I resolved to shut down the motor and attempt to diagnose the problem. No sooner had I shut off the throttle than the lack of centrifugal force lost out to the forces of gravity, and the gearbox and prop dropped clean off the leg into about 3m of chilly, fast-flowing Waikato river water. Disaster.
Ross's only comment (bless him) was, (with the benefit of hindsight it should be pointed out), "Well, next time you hear that sort of vibration you'll drive it into the shallows before you shut it off, won't you?".
Yes, Ross, sorry, Ross, how much do I owe you for the gearbox, prop and cav plate Ross? Ouch.
Fortunately, having had the foresight to bring A) a stove, B) a billy, C) Twinings Orange Pekoe teabags, D) a cup, and E) milk, I was able to 'brew up' and await the 'crash boat', in the form of Phil Bennett and his able deckhand and grandson, Aaron. I noted that the crash boat had a depth sounder, something I would be wishing for on Day Two, but I'm getting ahead of myself.
Lashed to the starboard side of the crash boat, the well-named 'Destiny', we were ignominously hauled into the landing at Rangariro where many people, hearing on the grapevine that we'd lost a prop, were incredulous when they realised we had dropped the entire gearbox - prop and all!
After facing the good-humoured jibes referring to my intelligence, parentage and mechanical abilities, I quickly set up the tent in the park under the bridge, and proceeded across the highway to the "the Ranga" - the Rangariro Hotel - for dinner and a few well-earned (or at least fervently desired) ales.
Rather than rebuilding the motor for Day Two, Ross suggested I simply run his 'spare' Silver Century 'stocker' which, after mucking about for 15mins attempting to improve on the depth of the motor (minus anti-cav plate, alas) we set off on the second leg, at least a half hour behind the rest of the Dinghy Class fleet. This was not critical, as having DNF'd the day before, we were now in the 'only raced on Day 2' Regatta Class.
Needless to say, for most of the 6-odd hours it took to motor down to Hoods Landing, we didn't see a single Seagull, with everyone ahead of us, and the lack of speed (minus cav plate) quite noticeable, averaging about 5mph at best, we chuntered on, admiring the views, the scenery, coal mines, power stations and the numerous 'bach's' in the lower reaches. These are fishing shacks which have hereditary 'right of occupation' of particular stretches of river for the extraction of certain fish species, whitebait being the one I remember, and are obviously a glorified 'doghouse' where the fellas can escape the sheilas - or whatever the Kiwi equivalent might be.
Only one boat actually passed me all day, and as this was Don Short, driving Raouls Lealand's Microgull II powered by a 5HP Seagull Sport engine, at around 20mph, I don't think I have to feel too bad about being 'overtaken'. I finally, and painfully slowly, caught up to a couple of slower competitors, a yellow Minimost-type hydroplane, whose pilot looked spectacularly uncomfortable, kneeling atop this frail-looking craft, and the "Sam I Am" skiff of Rhys and John, driven by Rhys at this point.
Alarmingly, as I entered the final furlong to Hoods Landing, with the crowd almost visible a few hundred metres ahead, the prop spring chose the least appropriate time to die. So I throttled back and 'nursed' the wounded motor across the Finish line to the cheers of the assembled crowd of Seagullers, support crew and onlookers.
Fourth-last across the finish line, maybe, but in my mind nonetheless victorious for having survived The Longest Seagull Race In The World, and having had an absolute ball doing so.
With the exchange rate the way it is, I urge all you lurking Aussies (and all you cashed up Poms) to book your tickets NOW for the 2012 event, log onto the Regatta Events site, and vie for the honour of the "First Entry Received".
Don't worry if you haven't got a boat. Or a motor. Or know anyone in New Zealand. Good old-fashioned Kiwi organisation can solve most of these issues, and after the event, you'll have a whole lot of new friends on the other side of the Tasman, or the far side of the world, respectively.
Don't wait to put it in your 'bucket list', make like Nike and "just do it". It's an absolute blast that you will never forget.
My first Seagull racing experience was not without its difficulties and frustrations, but most of these were solved thanks to ingenuity and downright excellent Kiwi hospitality.
I spent the week prior to Easter camped at Karapiro Domain (campground) where, for the princely sum of NZ$12.50/night I had access to a fully equipped kitchen, laundry with washer and drier, showers, and a large lake - Seagull testing, for the use of.
The boat lent me by Raoul Lealand was the small red R-Series sailboat that appears in Pirate Pete's pics, usually complete with it's 'locally sourced' bamboo mast and Aussie boxing kangaroo flag. I spent much time running up and down the hill to Don Short's workshop where, ably assisted by his son Nathan, I constructed the 'BBQ box' which you can see in the race photos, which was designed to contain a single-burner butane-powered camp stove (the type that comes in a plastic briefcase) and which was also used to brew up a billy of tea. I even advertised the fact that I was making 'sausage sangers' but as no-one was able to catch me to take advantage of this FREE offer, I had to eat them all myself.
The boat was pretty quick with the Ross Leger-supplied Silver Century Plus 'race motor', complete with large anti-cav plate - about 12km/h fully loaded with 40L of fuel, BBQ, Esky/chilly bin and my lard-arsed 120kg self. Probably do 15-17 with someone smaller and lighter. LOL.
Set off last in class on Day One, as I was clambering over rocks trying to get photos of the start, which I later discovered didn't turn out because I'd not set the camera up to reduce the 'puffing and blowing like whale' shakes caused by too much unfamiliar exertion. Doh. Anyway, got away eventually and, after lapping the pool to get myself settled in the cut-down driver's seat, I approached the rapids and the upper gorges with some trepidation and very little control over the boat. Having no keel and an almost flat underside, and little power to counter-act it, I was at the mercy of the whirlpools, rapids and the current, which was adding an estimated 8km/h to my already momentous speed through the water.
What little I saw of the upper Waikato was very interesting, and utterly beautiful - slowly rising morning mist hiding the top of the gorge from view, the sheer rock walls a plethora of fern species and hardy waterside flora.
Having been properly coached by various well-meaning Kiwis, I was well armed to avoid all the snags, rock shelves, and danger spots, and managed to get through to Hamilton with loss of neither life, limb, or motor. Alas the same could not be said for the stretch between Huntly and Rangariro, at the end of the day. In the meantime, the Aussie 'flagship', "Y Worry" proceeded at pace down the Mighty River (which is its apparent translation from Maori). Waving madly at shore-bound onlookers through Hamilton, we motored north-ish with barely a pause.
Well, there were a couple, actually.
The first was caused by brain malfunction. I had been told repeatedly to time the motor's consumption of fuel, so I would know when to 'pump' from the large main tank up into the little Seagull tank atop the motor. Forgot, didn't I? A brief drop in revs, a couple of splutters, and an almost apologetic cough, and we were adrift - unpowered, and heading rapidly downstream - sideways. I twigged the cause immediately, pumped like mad, crawled into the stern, performed the 'Seagull Starting Ritual', and away we went again.
Having overtaken the only other sailboat, piloted by Grandad Norm and Grandson Nathan Short, for the second time - we were about 0.5km/hr quicker, so the term 'overtake' is used somewhat lightly - we continued merrily on our way until, without any warning, the Big Block Race Motor died again. This time it was serious. I checked fuel - plenty. Having a spare plug aboard (thank you Repco at Matamata) I determined to check this, but, not game to attempt this leaning over the stern, had first to haul the motor inboard.
It was here that the vagaries and ancillaries of the 'race' motor, against a standard motor, made themselves felt. Firstly I had to remove the 2.5miles of gaffa tape holding the remote-steering gear's plug into the end of the tiller. Then I had to disentangle the tiller cables from the main fuel line to the front-mounted main tank (balancing the trim, you see), and disconnect the remote telltale from its fitting on the block, and finally, after disconnecting the main fuel line, pull the R-clip from the transom locking pin and haul the motor inboard.
It took longer to do than to write about. Finally, with the plug removed, and large carbon deposits a possible culprit, the new plug was sourced from the bottom of the dilly bag of tools and spares. Damn. It hadn't been gapped properly. Fortunately, with Don Short's foresight (love that man) he had included a small 0.020 feeler gauge in the tool kit, so I was able to regap the new plug, insert it, and reverse the previously described engine removal process. Thankfully, after completing the Seagull Starting Ritual, the blessed motor fired first pull, and we were off and chasing the Short's sailboat, once again.
With no chance of catching them, they had a 20min lead by this time, we followed our instructions and kept close to the bank where the deeper water is, carefully crossing over from outer bank to outer bank on the bends to avoid the shallows on the inside of the bends. A few miles further on, somehwere near Huntly, about 8 miles from the halfway point and camp at Rangariro, an odd vibration and 'rattling' noise made itself heard, marring the previously rhythmic cadence of the blattering Seagull exhaust note.
While we puzzled over this, wondering whether or not the noise had been there before or not, and trying to decide whether or not it was worth stopping (again) and losing more time, when in fact the motor was clearly still running, those sneaky little 'hold the gearbox onto the leg screws' were quietly jiggling themselves looser, and looser.......
Finally, deciding that the now apparent vibration and noise had NOT, in fact, been there before and were, in fact, getting notieably worse by the minute, I resolved to shut down the motor and attempt to diagnose the problem. No sooner had I shut off the throttle than the lack of centrifugal force lost out to the forces of gravity, and the gearbox and prop dropped clean off the leg into about 3m of chilly, fast-flowing Waikato river water. Disaster.
Ross's only comment (bless him) was, (with the benefit of hindsight it should be pointed out), "Well, next time you hear that sort of vibration you'll drive it into the shallows before you shut it off, won't you?".
Yes, Ross, sorry, Ross, how much do I owe you for the gearbox, prop and cav plate Ross? Ouch.
Fortunately, having had the foresight to bring A) a stove, B) a billy, C) Twinings Orange Pekoe teabags, D) a cup, and E) milk, I was able to 'brew up' and await the 'crash boat', in the form of Phil Bennett and his able deckhand and grandson, Aaron. I noted that the crash boat had a depth sounder, something I would be wishing for on Day Two, but I'm getting ahead of myself.
Lashed to the starboard side of the crash boat, the well-named 'Destiny', we were ignominously hauled into the landing at Rangariro where many people, hearing on the grapevine that we'd lost a prop, were incredulous when they realised we had dropped the entire gearbox - prop and all!
After facing the good-humoured jibes referring to my intelligence, parentage and mechanical abilities, I quickly set up the tent in the park under the bridge, and proceeded across the highway to the "the Ranga" - the Rangariro Hotel - for dinner and a few well-earned (or at least fervently desired) ales.
Rather than rebuilding the motor for Day Two, Ross suggested I simply run his 'spare' Silver Century 'stocker' which, after mucking about for 15mins attempting to improve on the depth of the motor (minus anti-cav plate, alas) we set off on the second leg, at least a half hour behind the rest of the Dinghy Class fleet. This was not critical, as having DNF'd the day before, we were now in the 'only raced on Day 2' Regatta Class.
Needless to say, for most of the 6-odd hours it took to motor down to Hoods Landing, we didn't see a single Seagull, with everyone ahead of us, and the lack of speed (minus cav plate) quite noticeable, averaging about 5mph at best, we chuntered on, admiring the views, the scenery, coal mines, power stations and the numerous 'bach's' in the lower reaches. These are fishing shacks which have hereditary 'right of occupation' of particular stretches of river for the extraction of certain fish species, whitebait being the one I remember, and are obviously a glorified 'doghouse' where the fellas can escape the sheilas - or whatever the Kiwi equivalent might be.
Only one boat actually passed me all day, and as this was Don Short, driving Raouls Lealand's Microgull II powered by a 5HP Seagull Sport engine, at around 20mph, I don't think I have to feel too bad about being 'overtaken'. I finally, and painfully slowly, caught up to a couple of slower competitors, a yellow Minimost-type hydroplane, whose pilot looked spectacularly uncomfortable, kneeling atop this frail-looking craft, and the "Sam I Am" skiff of Rhys and John, driven by Rhys at this point.
Alarmingly, as I entered the final furlong to Hoods Landing, with the crowd almost visible a few hundred metres ahead, the prop spring chose the least appropriate time to die. So I throttled back and 'nursed' the wounded motor across the Finish line to the cheers of the assembled crowd of Seagullers, support crew and onlookers.
Fourth-last across the finish line, maybe, but in my mind nonetheless victorious for having survived The Longest Seagull Race In The World, and having had an absolute ball doing so.
With the exchange rate the way it is, I urge all you lurking Aussies (and all you cashed up Poms) to book your tickets NOW for the 2012 event, log onto the Regatta Events site, and vie for the honour of the "First Entry Received".
Don't worry if you haven't got a boat. Or a motor. Or know anyone in New Zealand. Good old-fashioned Kiwi organisation can solve most of these issues, and after the event, you'll have a whole lot of new friends on the other side of the Tasman, or the far side of the world, respectively.
Don't wait to put it in your 'bucket list', make like Nike and "just do it". It's an absolute blast that you will never forget.
gullible, a. The effect on reason of the appearance of anything 'Gull-related on an internet sales site
Re: waikato river seagull race
Further to my previous, anyone looking for a boat to buy and 'hold' in NZ there's one that has raced in the event for sale on KIW Trade Me site, here:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 680766.htm
Might be worth a look.....
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 680766.htm
Might be worth a look.....
gullible, a. The effect on reason of the appearance of anything 'Gull-related on an internet sales site
-
Charles uk
- Posts: 4954
- Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:38 pm
- Location: Maidenhead Berks UK
Re: waikato river seagull race
Looks like my Voodoo powers must be waining, I kept dropping the doll in the dunny, never even thought about the gear box.
Honest it wasn't me Dad.
Honest it wasn't me Dad.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Re: waikato river seagull race
LOL!! 
Whatever the intent, I was definitely 'in the s**t', so I reckon your powers must have waxed, not waned!
And at least I've now got someone else to 'blame' hah hah!!
Whatever the intent, I was definitely 'in the s**t', so I reckon your powers must have waxed, not waned!
And at least I've now got someone else to 'blame' hah hah!!
gullible, a. The effect on reason of the appearance of anything 'Gull-related on an internet sales site
Re: waikato river seagull race
Some more Photos From Waikato Race 2011 and 2010
https://picasaweb.google.com/1053607529 ... llRace2010
https://picasaweb.google.com/1053607529 ... llRace2011
https://picasaweb.google.com/1053607529 ... llRace2010
https://picasaweb.google.com/1053607529 ... llRace2011
33 RACING NZ
-
The Tinker
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:18 am
- Location: Whangamata, New Zealand
Re: waikato river seagull race
Hey Chicken,
Thanks for posting the videos. I can see that our engines need to pull a few more revs. Listening to Ross Ledgers engine I would say he is pulling around 5000 revs. Engines will handle it if built properly. It seems a little less pitch in the prop and more turns of the prop is an advantage. I am working on pulling more revs.
Thanks for posting the videos. I can see that our engines need to pull a few more revs. Listening to Ross Ledgers engine I would say he is pulling around 5000 revs. Engines will handle it if built properly. It seems a little less pitch in the prop and more turns of the prop is an advantage. I am working on pulling more revs.